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  • 198 messages
  • March 25, 2024 07:45
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March 25, 2024 07:45
My definition of a reprint official ones is : when a postal administration do reprint using the original plates some years later after the original issue.

There are in all catalog some reprint for many countries from classic stamps like French 1849 , Belgium Epaulettes , stamps , German states …. and also modern stamps. I got some in my collection. Catalogs give lower prices than the original ones but sometimes they are valuated higher prices. 

I ask the question as I got some official reprints to enter or to find where they are in LD catalog.

How and where to enter these reprints in LD catalog ? Is it possible or not ? 

Thanks in advance
  • 198 messages
  • March 25, 2024 09:56
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March 25, 2024 09:56
Perhaps Raoul62 You can answer my question ? 
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March 25, 2024 10:30
Little experience with reprints. but I can weave some prose around it because you asked so nicely.

For example, you have reprints of Jul stamps such as #10018133 .
To make them easy to find, 'Seal' is given as the usage type.
Normally, at least with Jul stamps, the year of reprint is printed on the reverse of the stamp. Collectors from that collecting area love it.

This is different with Postage Stamps.
You have reprints of items that were actually created for postage.
But also reprints in a slightly different guise (as a reminder, for example on a piece of paper). The latter are mainly intended for collectors and are often not usable (not intended) for postage.

And then you have the commercial reprints (*) of which no one knows what to think.

How can you know if a reprint, for postage, was created with the original printed circuit boards? and how do you recognize it? I think they look identical, right?
How can you determine the year of issue if a stamp is printed over and over again with the original printing plates?

(*) E.g. the blocks of Burundi from the years 2011-2013. Today they are still printed because there is demand for them (and the prices are artificially high). By commercial firms that once, and sometimes still, hold the postal monopoly of a particular country: a contract that gives them a mandate to act as the Official Postal Service in place of the government itself. But especially when it comes to issuing new stamps/blocks/sheets/luxury sheets/... that are sent directly to the stamp trade to please the collectors.
The original printing plates are also used again and again.
Reprint on demand.
Sometimes you see that the paper or eraser has a slightly different color. But of course no one knows which is the first edition or a 25th (re)print. They are all identical.
When the collectors of Burundi, who had a subscription (often a double subscription) started to feel it in their wallets, they all dropped out. Especially in 2012, when the price of 2 subscriptions was approximately equal to an average monthly income. Result: production also stopped. Fewer and fewer issues were made. There are still many reprints to maintain the 2011-2013 stock.
When after a number of years there was some saturation (eventually every Burundi collector has about all of them, and the number of collectors decreases every year), a catch-up maneuver was carried out and a new batch of (unwanted, in unauthorized quantities) issues were made. To help the satiated collectors with surplus money. And to maintain turnover.

There are different directions when it comes to reprints ;)
You might be able to tell them apart with carbon dating, but that's going a bit too far for me.
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March 25, 2024 10:49
I don't know if you can also call stamps that are identical, except for a new year in mini letters somewhere, reprints?

For such situations: see Ukraine. It's full of it.
Even within a calendar year (with addition of I, II, III, ...
Unreadable with the naked eye. And on certain images in the LD catalog not recognizable at all (blurred), such as #2335955 (one of the 10 'almost identical' glass jugs from Ukraine on LD, perhaps there are more). Many images have now been replaced by a copy where it is somewhat legible. But I am not entirely sure whether such a new image always corresponds to the original stamp (image) that was added. I seem to remember that a while ago it was impossible (cannot be determined based on images or data).
There are flowers, utensils, art, ... Plenty of choice.
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  • 198 messages
  • March 25, 2024 13:19
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March 25, 2024 13:19
Raoul62 you draw interesting question on reprints and if it is possible to classify them in the LD catalog.

Take about reprints of the French 1849 issue like the Rothschild reprints and the reprints made for Sir Rowland Hill , the ink wasn’t the same that was logical. These reprints must be certified by a recognised expert. The original plate was use officially inside the French official printing house.
The reason of these reprints were mainly because Sir Rowland Hill ask to have for its collection one original sheet  each 1849 issue and that after checking the official archive the concern was that the French minister archive have not at all even 1 sheet , at this time nobody in French printing house think to archive some sheets. So it was decided to do an official reprint of some sheets for the French postal archive and as a gift to Sir Rowland Hill. The actual reprint stamps that you can buy are from the reminder of this sheets even if it was first printed for official archives.

I had for Belgium some official reprints of the Epaulettes including Eisenhower reprints. But the story is far different as they where done individually on ministry style sheets (you know certainly better than me about that )

For the 1849 French reprints is it a good idea to duplicate one entry with same photo  (the color cannot be seen on screen) , change the date, the catalog value and the date of issue, putting into comment reprint xxx ? 

As you know I talk only about reprints of classics stamps that are in catalogs and official ones. Most were not done for collectors, some were gifts other were done for archiving, all using in an official printing house with the original plates and cannot be called fake.

I exclude the private reprints made by private companies that bought original plates and did issue only for collectors like Moens did in Belgium : they are fake like Fournier forgeries to my opinion.
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March 25, 2024 13:32
Frenchstamps

If you have such things in your possession, you can indeed make a nice scan of them and add them to the LD stamp catalogue. The description will be important so as not to mislead other users of the catalog (when indicating collection or offering in shop).
For this purpose, I think it is best to contact in advance (private message) the manager fpvanhoutte who has been taking care of France in the stamp section for quite some time. You may never see that administrator on the forum, there is a reason for that.
User domi36 has been by far the most active (and valued) user in France in recent years. You can also work well with them.

Be careful. The devil here is not in the tail but in the head: "If you have such things in your possession". You must have the item in your hands and make a (nice) scan of it yourself before you can/may add something to LD. That is how it works.
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  • 198 messages
  • March 25, 2024 14:27
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March 25, 2024 14:27
Raoul62 I have no scanner , I use only can take photos with my IPad or IPhone , is it a tech problem with the catalog, particularly for the zoom ? I got only on hands 2 reprints of the 1849 French issue as they are not common at all. If other here got some too in their collection it will become interesting to have not only twoo but the serie.

An other proposal for reprint (official ones) could be to put in the title of the catalog (reprint) , and of course the date of issue is never the same that the original one. They are all MH usually. Forget for LD shop as the resale price is more that 250 € for the 1849 reprints, more around 500 € + so they will never be on shops on LD.

I was advocating in an other post than LD catalog must be easier targeted to beginners and average collectors but as Helv say with need to think to advanced expert collectors too , I was thinking that for classic stamps , reprints can be add, this why I ask how to do ? 
  • 184 messages
  • March 25, 2024 15:20
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March 25, 2024 15:20
Are these reprints stamps or cinderellas (in the sense that although they have all the characteristics of a stamp, they have not had any validity to pay, in advance or afterwards, for the carriage of a letter or parcel, nor to pay a surcharge for an extra service as part of that transport)?
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March 25, 2024 15:25
Preference for the scanner: see explanation in the LD stamp manual (point 28).

A reprint of the type you described is a completely new edition. Although with the same means as the original item, but always much later and with a different purpose than the original publication. A new edition, as in the example given for the Jul stamps.
'Reprint' is also not provided separately in any, or as, field. So it is possible in those circumstances in the issue name.
You could also include it in the title.
Method that is also often used for printing.

The Particularités field is important here, because you can enter the story behind the issue and other things for which there is no field available. In the hope that the collector looks at the detail and reads it (some only look at the picture, unfortunately).

If it was not the intention to distribute them as postage stamps, the Type is 'inconnu'. If you are very sure that they were only intended for the archive 'Sans valeur d'affranchissement'. You can then ask yourself how it is possible that you as a private individual could come into possession of something like this.
Proofs, color proofs, black prints, minister sheets are all products that were/are not offered for sale by the postal service for postage purposes. They also have a specific purpose that is not the same as stamps. The reprints you're talking about are pretty much in the same boat.
With the difference that black prints (two-color print of an issued stamp, sheet or block) often have the same issue date and are best included with the issue in question. There is also a 'type' that allows you to separate them from the rest. So (in my opinion) it does not have to be placed in a separate issue name where the type is repeated.

The object must also have been created in circulation in order to be able to add it to a category on LD. If only one sheet was made (reprinted) to give as a gift to one person, then it is not in circulation.

This, and the rest: to be discussed (in advance) with the administrator I mentioned in my previous message. This person will see and review the new item in no time. If everything was discussed in advance there are no surprises.

There is little chance that thousands of reprints of that type will be added to the catalog. Sir Rowland Hill's heirs may not be LD users. For a few exceptions, it is best not to provide an additional type. It just makes the list longer, and sets a precedent to suddenly make the list much longer (everyone has something special).
If it turns out that after a while there is a need (a sudden enormous increase in such items in the stamp section), this can still be made up.
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  • 198 messages
  • March 25, 2024 15:58
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March 25, 2024 15:58
Esquerdo They are not Cinderella and not fake if official print under the government supervision. 

If they are printed , like most of Heligoland stamps by a private individual that bought the plate , that an other story of course more like Cinderellas but not sure it is the right words. Some Catalog state like reprints with a very low price , some other mention them warn the collectors about them. Raoul62 in these case Cinderellas or fake or non official reprint or private reprint , what is the right term ? 

Agree that as they were not in circulation and not made for postal usage , like proofs…they are part of the history of a specific stamp but at the end it is not a good idea to add them to LD catalog. 

What can be done is to say in the description field of stamps that were reprint, that there are reprints of these stamps and give some information about it (I know very few read those information ) ? 
  • 184 messages
  • March 25, 2024 16:28
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March 25, 2024 16:28
Frenchstamps that's a good dividing line. Royal Mail recently also made the Penny Black, in addition to various reprints from the nineteenth century.
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March 25, 2024 16:29
in this case Cinderellas or fake or non official reprint or private reprint , what is the right term?

Illegal issuance

And if such items are allowed on LD, then the (non-illegal) reprints are certainly allowed.

If they exist, are minted, and are collected... what's the best place to capture them digitally?

PS: we mainly include the illegal issues to show them, so that a collector can know that a certain print (with or without teeth) is not a stamp, but a product to mislead and defraud collectors (see the high amounts sometimes paid for it by ignorant collectors).
If you don't show them, no one can find out. By keeping silent about it, you are contributing to those scams. By showing them within their context (adding '- Illegal issues' before the area name and an appropriate catalog value), you contribute to better opportunities for collectors to protect themselves against them.
In the past, a number of people have enriched themselves by selling illegal blocks and sheets at prices sometimes above 10 euros. At certain printers you can decide for yourself which country, value, how many stamps and what subject should be printed. You will receive a full box, 50,000 copies, for just 500 euros. You are then assured of 'unique copies'. With a theme that is 'in' at that moment (flowers, plants, animals, whales, inventors, scouting, mushrooms, Disney, actors, Diana (the princess, not the Ross.), ...). Purchase price 1 cent, sales price 10 euros ... and the theme collector was (temporarily) happy. Until the penny dropped. Too late of course.
Sometimes you can be lucky and know where you stand through LD.
Without LD stimulating the sale of those items, because that could come back like a boomerang straight in the face.
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March 25, 2024 17:28
If you really want to read funny things, you should reread the above messages in NL with LD in English. Automatic translation is still far from its infancy.
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  • 198 messages
  • March 25, 2024 19:03
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March 25, 2024 19:03
Raoul62 Esquerdo Many reprints of expensive stamps make happy stamps collectors as space filler of expensive stamps that we afford like a non used penny black.

On US philatelic boards many are very happy to got cheap reprints as space filler particularly when the reprint is really of great quality as must be the Royal Mail Penny Black.

Some other prefer highly damaged expensive stamps the famous space filler because they are the real one with all their past life and the fact they tell a story.

Long time ago a dealer sell me before the euros a bunch of Fournier  space filler from the French colonies, I pay them in French francs  convert to euros like 0,10 € each now you find the Founier more over 2 € to 10 € each. After all they got over 100 years story and they have their story of the first era of stamp collection. Forgeries for sure but with a story more than modern reprints. 

My passion is more towards history of the stamps collection so having too a collection of old stamp forgeries and illegal issuance (reprints ) make sense but you need to buy them for cheap for what they are.
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  • March 25, 2024 19:16
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March 25, 2024 19:16
And forgeries are not allowded in the Stamps section on LD.
See Basic Manual, 1.2
...
 Forgeries are not included in the catalogue. Think of counterfeit coins or fake articles.
...
  • 198 messages
  • March 25, 2024 19:50
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March 25, 2024 19:50
Raoul62 I was not writing about LD , it was just a general talk on how some collectors have different opinions about space filler and illegal reprint not to tell at all to have them on LD. 

To know about them , as you state before about warning collectors on them is useful like to say under Bergerdorf or Heligoland that there are more reprints and forgeries than real ones and that real  stamped ones are very scarce and that most stamped are forgeries. Put that under a country presentation is not against LD rule 1.2.

We are here to share knowledge and learn too. 
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