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Morits
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  • February 09, 2010 12:37
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February 09, 2010 12:37

I would like to start a new discussion about the list prices and how these will be determined.
As you know, the list price will be determined by averaging the asking / selling prices of the shopkeepers. Now it has been common for shops to often keep Hans Matla's list price (and please don't attack me if one or two don't). Exchange exchanges often charge 50 - 75% of this price (again: do not attack if someone does it for 80%). If private individuals now bring in an item and apply the usual discount on it, there is a risk of a list price of € 0.01 in the long term. Because a buyer who sees that a seller uses a price that is above the list price, then it is immediately pile driving and scything. This actually automatically means that a seller, be it a shop or private individual, can rarely or never offer below the list price anymore, because the list price will then go down and that cannot be stopped.
Mind you, I do not criticize the method of pricing. I'm just curious where this is going. In my opinion a list price is fixed and depending on a rising or falling demand, the sales price will go up or down, but the list price does not change.

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  • February 09, 2010 14:54
February 09, 2010 14:54

Dear Morits,
a lasting pleasant discussion indeed.
Incidentally, I am of the opinion that a catalog value must change.
In my opinion, it is most transparent if the catalog value is exactly equal to the effective sales value.

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  • February 09, 2010 15:41
February 09, 2010 15:41

I do agree with Bobbedoes.
List prices are subject to market forces and are therefore variable.
The market is always in motion and will never tumble to the right or left, is natural equilibrium. I think the basis of a catalog is first the retail price. The rarity, antiquarian or sought after of an item will then automatically do the rest. Question of supply and demand.
Conversely, partly thanks to the Internet and the many providers, “hard to find” booklets have fallen sharply in price.
Nice discussion idd.

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  • February 09, 2010 16:30
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February 09, 2010 16:30

Mha, I don't know, nice as a comic / book / etc. suddenly instead of 4000 now suddenly 300 is going to be in value. I think that's the only thing that can happen, or that people start using the value of good for new The future will tell whether things are going well or not.

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Rene
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February 09, 2010 17:50
List prices are intended to be a weighted average of the actual sales (weigh heavily) in a particular item and the prices for which that item is offered in shops (weigh less than the prices for which it was actually sold). The idea is to add 30% to this weighted average for determining the catalog price. We see 2 reasons for this:
1. There are many questions to be able to calculate the total value of a collection on the basis of the list prices for insurance purposes. The insured value must be such that you can easily buy back the objects for it. A catalog value that is 30% above the average market value generally guarantees this.
2. What Morits outlines: many traders and collectors are indeed used to selling the price slightly below the list price (this is not only the case with the collection area Comics, but this is also the case with most collection areas: stamps, coins, etc.) If you keep updating the list price, the negative price spiral outlined by Morits threatens.
Incidentally, I do not agree with this at all:

In my opinion a list price is fixed and depending on a rising or falling demand the sales price will go up or down, but the list price does not change. If a list price does not change with the market, it will say little or nothing at a given moment.

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  • February 09, 2010 17:59
February 09, 2010 17:59

A list price should be a reasonably fixed item. Each trader / seller can then check his offer and prices according to the quality. As a seller you can also compete with other providers in this way, for example if you want to get rid of your product quickly.
If the list price starts to fluctuate too much, then you have lost your stable pricing. How can you still buy and sell well.
The catalog price may be adjusted slightly year after year, depending on supply and demand. But large fluctuations destroy the entire price system. It is not for nothing a CATALOG price.

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Morits
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  • February 09, 2010 18:09
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February 09, 2010 18:09

Cle-Mens got it, luckily!

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  • February 09, 2010 18:39
February 09, 2010 18:39

Unfortunately you are not Morits, an average of “something” is also a guideline, that's a given :)

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  • February 09, 2010 19:30
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February 09, 2010 19:30

A general average is not a good idea anyway: of all comics that are still commercially available as new, the new price should remain the list price.
Dealers can give a discount, or buy a lot from a collector that is still in new condition. , or as a collector you can liquidate certain series yourself at cheap prices to get rid of them quickly: this does not change the value of the comic, does it? So also not the catalog value.
For older comics the condition is especially important: if there is now also a varying catalog value, we better simply abolish the catalog value. After all, everyone can see at what price they are being offered. So what's the point of a catalog value?

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  • February 09, 2010 19:45
February 09, 2010 19:45

A catalog value is indeed only intended for sold out albums.
Viewing the values per year probably takes more than six months ..

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  • February 09, 2010 20:25
February 09, 2010 20:25

In my opinion, a negative spiral regarding the value is only possible if only Catawiki results are used as a source. If that is the starting point, you will indeed fall back on a "Big Brother" who looks beyond Catawiki and the internet and also includes results beyond that. This is going to be another complicated issue.

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  • February 09, 2010 20:39
February 09, 2010 20:39

As Pitske has already concluded. If the catalog value of a strip is price x, and only copies of poorer quality are sold, the catalog price would drop. This can never be the intention. For example, the catalog price will generally have a decreasing character.
And indeed, Bobbedoes. A correct list price can never be determined by Catawiki alone. Is not necessary.
Many collectibles already have catalog prices. stamps, coins and the like already have list prices accepted by everyone.
I sell books myself and I also include the pricing of Bol.com.
So I think it should be looked at per category how the list price already exists or has yet to be determined.

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  • February 09, 2010 22:35
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February 09, 2010 22:35

Guys, the value of PER STATE is being average, not the overall list price.
The only problem may be that people see something as new and get it for the price of good.

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  • February 09, 2010 23:14
February 09, 2010 23:14

Cle-Mens, what you or Pitske say is not possible, then you calculate completely outside the market. Catawiki gives that market price-wise. Not 12 years out of date, but every day, accurate all year round and adapted to the market of supply and demand. What is available today may be sold out tomorrow. If there is a demand and little supply, such an item will soon (by retailers) be known in the market as “difficult” (due to not available) and Catawiki will immediately because of its open source & amp; system administrators notice and record (by providers). New available comics have already been provided by publishers with a suggested retail price, which means they are also listed in Catawiki.
In principle, all factors are already taken into account in the 3 states, graduated + price, just check, tick: retail price, antiquarian, 2nd hand, purchase, sale, stock condition, scarcity, surplus, good, new or reasonable condition, question , shops, part. offer, collectors offer, popular, unpopular, price comparison, everything at a glance on 1 site, 1 catalog. I will probably forget something .. For most collectors and shopkeepers that is almost enough.
Virtually every comic proves that retail price is “the basis” in all of this. Over the years, this one-off automatic basis will “automatically” become higher or lower, and therefore variable, due to the all-encompassing market forces of supply and demand.

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  • February 09, 2010 23:38
February 09, 2010 23:38

Pellucidar, We say the same in part. I indicate that the list price has changed. I do notice that almost everyone compares it to comics. That makes sense at the moment because it is currently the largest catawiki filling. This works differently with stamps and coins. Also when booking. Just because a book is not available today does not mean that the list price will change. However, the price of the providers. Ten copies will be offered tomorrow. The list price remains the same, but the providers respond to each other. So the catalog price (sometimes new price) indicates the long-term value of the product. This simply has to do with the amount of products of a certain quality in circulation. The list price of a coin or stamp does not change continuously. So in the pricing we have to look at the entire range of Catawiki and not just comics.
It has nothing to do with calculations outside the market.
We should not compare the List Price with the value for 1 product. You see the current price as catalog value.

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  • February 09, 2010 23:43
February 09, 2010 23:43

Sorry Cle-mens, I had expanded my text a bit and I hope clarified Yes, I mainly talked about comics, but of course you have market forces everywhere. And to go directly to your last comment, yes I see given the “function of Catawiki” what did not exist at all, for comics in general, as a basis and current price for the reasons I just added above.

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  • February 09, 2010 23:45
February 09, 2010 23:45

Your extension makes it a bit clearer. My fear is that there will be too great fluctuations in the short term. I am not against the system, but I am concerned about the above.

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  • February 09, 2010 23:48
February 09, 2010 23:48

Explain .. give an example?

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  • February 09, 2010 23:52
February 09, 2010 23:52

Look at the first post on this topic from Morits. And you are right, there is always market forces. But when I bring out stamps and coins. The catalog value hardly changes. The circulation is known, the quality is known. and .. the list price is known. Traders vary that list price to match supply and demand.
Of course that is very different with comics, for example.

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  • February 10, 2010 00:08
February 10, 2010 00:08

I read it, Morits states 2 things a. that a list price remains the same. I say, there is a “basis” first and that “basis” does change with it. That is because with everything that has ever been sold as new. b. Morits states that the list price can eventually go to 0.01 ec, that is not possible, there are fluctuations in the value as he and you yourself say, but they always remain in balance due to the market.
I have no opinion about coins and stamps. I just know that stamps have lost 40% value since 10 years ago?

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Morits
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February 10, 2010 09:14

There is still one item that is underexposed. If a private individual has an item in the shop and he dares to ask for the "catalog" value for it (it doesn't matter in which state) then that will not be accepted. “You're not a shop, are you?”

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Rene
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February 10, 2010 09:39

There is still one item that is underexposed. If a private individual has an item in the shop and he dares to ask for the "catalog" value for it (it doesn't matter in which state) then that will not be accepted. “You're not a shop, are you?”

I haven't heard that before. I know there are private individuals who sell a lot. How much you sell has of course a relationship with the prices you ask. That's right. If the list prices will soon be more accepted because they have become objective (automatically linked to the market with a price surcharge in connection with the insured value), then it may be more logical for buyers to ask questions if you offer above the catalog value. List prices are currently still subjective and therefore less reliable. What is already possible in the larger sections, such as Comics and Stamps, is comparing with the prices of other providers. That works very well and makes the market much more transparent.

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  • February 10, 2010 12:14
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February 10, 2010 12:14

Removed

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  • February 10, 2010 14:33
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February 10, 2010 14:33

@ Willem, but of course you also grant a fellow collector a nice copy.
And as long as you do not use public transport, you can keep moving that way.

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Rene
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  • February 10, 2010 15:47
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February 10, 2010 15:47

Items that I value myself at 2-3 euros I can easily put in my shop for 5 euros. I don't walk to the post office for less than 5 euros.
Perhaps, in addition to a contribution to the postage, also ask for a contribution in your hiking boots :-)

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