ai ai ai ... item #7843489 idem dito

ai ai ai ... item # 7843489 ditto

Just put a # in front of the numbers, then you can click on them.

Danke danke Fazerco, learned something again :)
And if you click on it with the middle 'scroller' of the mouse, it immediately opens neatly in a new tab :)

You have to ask questions of whoever changed them.

And he / she has a reputation for changing things wrong, or changing according to their thing.

Je n'ai pas envie d'avoir une discussion en Français dans mes posts.

It is not about a person, but about a working method. I suppose the items are so correct (they have been in that way for about a year ...). But I don't understand and want to learn. So a general question here. Before I give about 300 of Belgium such a title, and move to Fantasyland. I will start working on it tomorrow.

So the question remains: where do such items belong? In Fantasyland, or in the (real and existing) country. What is the criterion for an 'occasion envelope' in your own country, or in Fantasyland? It is not more than that: a question.

And if to Fantasyland, once moved to Fantasyland, should that title stay that way forever in order to keep it that way or should it be made back a bit more appropriate?

According to kn67100, the occasion (Hannover Messe) has nothing to do with the theme of the stamps. If he means that this should therefore not be called an occasion envelope, then I can imagine something, but the (official?) Definition on the page Type does not say anything about applicable postage.

However, it has not changed Type, but Country / Territory. And in Fantasyland it should not be, because they are indeed German stamps (ie 1 German and 1 Berlin), with apparently also an official stamp of a temporary post office on the fair grounds.

A kind or category “ Marcophilia ”doesn't seem to exist yet.

This simply belongs to the country concerned. You also have a lot of them in the Netherlands for first flights of KLM with only a juliana cup as a stamp. The envelope is therefore an occasion envelope, not an occasional 'postage stamp'

I think that change should just be rejected

Now I had almost started to change the Belgian 'occasion envelopes' to the example of the items mentioned in the start. When you see something, you think it should be like this.
Because I had doubts I asked. Public, because talks only teach 2 people. Everyone can learn something from the forum.
I only change if I am sure (and then I can still be wrong), or because the person with ultimate responsibility wants it that way. Chaos is the last thing I (and maybe everyone?) Want.
Now I know this for sure. I will revert such items to their original when I see them pass.

Raoul, you should also rely a little more on your own knowledge and insight, instead of being fooled by the ignorance of others. I assume you have years of experience in the stamp business

Well Morits, others also have years of experience. And if you see several hundred items in Fantasy Land with such a title, in screaming capital letters:

All original Occasional envelopes from a specific country ... If that is possible for years, then you doubt yourself, don't you? Who am I to let a French fury come over me.
I 'saved' about 10 of them, I hope that about 20 other collectors will also find the courage (now) to make 10 back properly.
Well, I just added 'atmosphere image from the collection of YYYYY ...' somewhere with a fantasy countries item in the details. I thought it fit well with the image. A hidden joke that can last maybe 10 years. Who knows.

@Raoul,

The first item is an occasion envelope. The country is unclear, and depends on whether postage stamps from Berlin were valid in West Germany at the time of cancellation. I do not know; at that time there were still the separate collection areas Bundesrepublik and Berlin. Fantasyland as a temporary solution to that dilemma is then the logical consequence (= let the administrators figure it out!).
The second item is also an opportunity envelope.
The problem that kn67100 raises is that it is actually about the cancellation goes (French: marcophilie) and that has nothing to do with the used stamps. In fact, that should fall into the same category as, for example, the perfins. Move to Other & gt; Objects & gt; Cancellations, but unfortunately that doesn't exist (yet).
@Moritz: You're right. Unfortunately, my admin drum is still empty.

Mag ik dan concluderen dat:

1. Een gelegenheidsenvelop wordt gemaakt, al dan niet speciaal afgestempeld, ter gelegenheid van een gebeurtenis of event (een beurs, tentoonstelling, eerste vlucht, ...). Dit zijn duidelijk gelegenheidsenveloppen, en die soort is beschikbaar in de postzegelrubriek.  Daarom zijn ze welkom bij 'Postzegels' op LD.
2. Ze horen in het land te staan, en hebben niets van doen met 'Fantasietjesland'.
3.  Als je een item verplaatst naar Fantasieland, dan laat je daardoor al merken dat je denkt dat het de verkeerde rubriek is.  Bijkomend de titel op een dergelijke manier laten 'schreeuwen' is niet normaal (niet toegelaten).
4. De duizenden gelegenheidsenveloppes die wel in een passend land staan mogen blijven. want ze waren  en zijn welkom.
5. Maakwerk (iedereen kan een enveloppe versieren met kleurpotloden, er enkele postzegels op kleven en dan laten afstempelen aan een postloket), hoe onnozel ook (onsamenhangendheid tussen zegels, tekeningske en afstempeling), is filatelie.  Als je er dan nog een duif zijn ... laat op doen, dan heb je duivenpost.

Bij punt 5 de opmerking: de meeste maximumkaarten van Nederland vallen hieronder.  Er is in Nederland een bepaalde drukker nogal heel actief geweest in het maken van duizenden verschillende nevenproducten.  Maar ze worden door filatelisten verzameld als uitbreiding van de postzegels en FDC's.  In de categorie 'Postzegels' zijn ze dan ook op hun plaats.

Blijft de vraag: wat doe je met 'maakwerk' tgv bv. een eigen verjaardag ...  Dit is ook een gebeurtenis.  En het item is dan eerder 'uniek' (enig in zijn soort).

Can I then conclude that:

1. An occasional envelope is made, whether or not specially stamped, on the occasion of an event or event (a fair, exhibition, first flight, ...). These are clearly occasional envelopes, and that kind is available in the stamp section. That is why they are welcome at 'Stamps' on LD.
2. They should be in the country, and have nothing to do with 'Fantasy Land'.
3. If you move an item to Fantasyland, you already show that you think it is the wrong category. In addition, letting the title 'shout' in such a way is not normal (not allowed).
4. The thousands of occasional envelopes that are in a suitable country may remain. because they were and are welcome.
5. Craftwork (anyone can decorate an envelope with colored pencils, stick some stamps on it and then have it stamped at a post office), no matter how silly (inconsistency between stamps, drawing and cancellation), is philately . If you then have a pigeon ... let it be done, then you have pigeon mail.

At point 5 the remark: most maximum cards of the Netherlands fall under this. In the Netherlands, a certain printer has been quite active in making thousands of different by-products. But they are collected by philatelists as an extension of the stamps and FDCs. They are therefore in their place in the category 'Stamps'.

The question remains: what do you do with 'made work' on the occasion of, for example, your own birthday ... This is also an event. And the item is then rather 'unique' (one of a kind).

I agree with most of your points. Some notes:
Point 3: here the changer apparently wanted to indicate that it is made, possibly because of the use of two stamps from different collection areas (was that allowed by the post?) Then it is not entirely clear to which "country" it belongs, and Fantasyland may be the only way to make it stand out.
Screaming capital letters are not neat. I am guilty of this myself, but only if I use the word DOUBLURE in the hope that other users will not hang on that seal.
At point 5 you may also think of the so-called "plate errors", where often your pigeon has come over. In my opinion, non-constant plate errors are printing coincidences and not real plate errors. Then they don't belong in the catalog.

By the way, your atmospheric image is gone (so short-lived) because that reminds too much of postcards, which belong in another collection area.

So, let's say the French fury but erupt. Can't answer in that language anyway. Moreover, 67100 is the French zip code for Strasbourg, and that is where more misery comes from :-)

@7451Dick, moeten we kn67100 er niet op wijzen dat hij niet zomaar items met postzegels uit een bestaand land (zoals #7843489 met zegels uit BRD) aan mag passen naar Fantasieland? Dat lijkt me toch sowieso niet de bedoeling? Als hij veel verkeerde wijzigingen heeft gedaan en het daarom veel werk is om al die wijzigingen als beheerder handmatig terug te draaien, dan zou dit ook in 1x gedaan kunnen worden door een developer.

@ 7451Dick, we should not point out to kn67100 that he is not just posting items with stamps from an existing country (such as # 7843489 with stamps from FRG) can adjust to Fantasyland? That doesn't seem like the intention anyway? If he has made many wrong changes and therefore it is a lot of work to manually roll back all those changes as an administrator, then this could also be done in one go by a developer.

I had already pointed Arco to him last year, so he was already able to do him. He has been busy changing items in various sections. So what I saw was not good and was rejected by Arco. There will also be something good in between, it is just what you want. And administrators are dumbfounded in some sections, so no control.

@Rene
Perhaps an extra option can be made for the administrators. For example: "imported item does not meet the requirements set in the Stamps Handbook".
The condition is that the handbook is available and in an accessible place. So not if you want to add an item, but on the homepage.
Have now spent 5 hours correcting input of 1 page, including educating users. Not reading the manual continues to be the cause of a lot of (unnecessary) work.

@fazerco

This has been done for years. I learned French at school for 7 years, but unfortunately I didn't use or write for half a century after that, so I don't make much of it, I'm afraid. And Google Translate, etc. I don't trust either. Just had the Belgian place Geel, which promptly became Yellow, Jaune and Gelb.

May I make a side note, it does not matter whether we collectors consider Berlin a separate collection area, but whether it was accepted by West Germany for postage.

I am also in favor of making the manual available on every main page, so that any user can use it, even if he / she does not add anything. Also looks much friendlier.

Perhaps someone could contact the German postal service. Perhaps that can be asked of Baronselderie, who speaks a nice word of German :-)
If you do research, you will in any case take away all doubts.

And those who think they see a mistake can consult the manual without touching the 'Add' button. There are those who are afraid of that 'Add' button. The good collectors who certainly do not want to do anything wrong ... but can actually become the most reliable 'correcters'.
There is still room for a button. With an inscription 'Did you see a mistake? Read this 1st. ' guaranteed success.

@Dick

Even if it only caused a half smile in one person, it was still worth that 'short life' :)

Both items belong to Germany and are resp. occasion envelope and card. Berlin stamps were allowed to be used in West Germany, vice versa. Sometimes the stamps affixed have and sometimes not to do with the theme of the envelope and stamp. That is why the subject on the envelope (or card) is leading. These items are made in editions and therefore they fit in the catalog. Self-made colorful envelopes or cards are handicrafts and therefore do not fit in the catalog.

I can imagine there are people who save occasion envelopes. So it belongs at LastDodo. It does indeed fit into a category of philately, for sure. But in a postage stamp section? Absolutely not. It is precisely these kinds of examples that make it clear that this does not belong to a postage stamp section. Because in which country do you classify this? And with which series? Because those are also 2 different. And it is an object consisting of several items with their own LastDodo number. I think this was the reason that Arco wanted all series objects from the catalog. Because that was nothing more than a combination of existing LastDodo elements, a composite item.
The essence, as with the FDC's, is the cancellation. It is a commemoration of a special event on an envelope (partly with stamps) decorated. Only on the basis of the stamping can you see it as an independent element. In principle, I think it is a justified thought to remove this type of stamped envelopes from the postage section. The way is less successful. I prefer to wait until the catalog manager and the management also realize that composite items, such as occasion envelopes, FDCs, sheets, se-tenants, series and the like, should not be in the postage section, but in another section of their own. Just like the perfins, so.