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June 24, 2021 13:22
The stamps of this Belgian series from last year https://www.lastdodo.nl/nl/areas/4527905-2020-happy-prior?cf%5B7839%5D=100601&filters%5B7839%5D=100601& scope=100601 (2020 - happy prior) are in the catalog as 'personal stamp'. See eg #7900643.

Why are these personal stamps? It seems to me to be a book that was just for sale.
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June 25, 2021 00:11
MennoGo 
They are not (separately) included in other catalogs. That is of course no reason. But, 'why aren't they all included separately' is the reason :)

They are personalized issues, where the post has been so free (or commercial) to 'personalise' (to provide an image) itself ). Everyone can order the same stamp (frame, frame, size, shape) with their own images. The post itself can do that too. Then pack it neatly and sell it.
They sell like hot cakes at the post office. After all, there are nice pictures on it: 'thematic'. Nice flowers, nice Smurfs, Harry Potter, dogs, kittens (the pets), mice (those other pets), landscapes, ...
All within the same stamp structure (catalog number), with little (no) study or thinking behind it . Only the picture changes. Just like you can create and use the same stamp with your own photo (front or back, it doesn't matter). A trained monkey could also produce them.

There are collectors of personal stamps, who then wonder what exactly is depicted. Usually no one can figure that out. The number of different (different picture) of one basic personalized stamp is also undetermined (100, 10,000?).

So a personalized issue is actually
- one issue of the basic stamp (the framework with a reserved place where a picture should be placed);
- only the 'maker' knows what is on the pictures ... and sometimes he doesn't know it either;
- there can be 1,000 or 100,000 variants of that seal exist. Nobody can figure that out.

Hence 'Personal' stamp. Everyone fills the empty box for themselves, and for those who are unable to do so, the Post will do it themselves. For a fee :)
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June 25, 2021 15:19
Thank you for your response, Raoul62 . It's already clearer. I thought that if Bpost offers them as a booklet, it would not be a personalized issue. But it is indeed the standard frame for such stamps.
I am not a fan of them either, but will collect them until further notice. Certainly the one whose issue can still be traced. I suspect that the situation in the Netherlands is not much different in this area...


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June 25, 2021 15:47
No, the same applies to the Netherlands. It's going to be a mess in the long run, and I don't know where it will end up when already those personal tones are added to the LD catalogue.
It's down to Belgium now still with me. Only 10% of the catalog is Personal Stamps. In the Netherlands this is now almost 25%.
They are nice, but they are starting to dominate. Eventually you can no longer see the trees for the forest. How can you find out if an item already exists if for a country, for a certain year, there are 25 screens full in the gallery ...
If tomorrow everyone starts adding personal stamps intensively, it will be very difficult to 'standard' collection of (non-personal) stamps to be managed on LD. Ditto for shop, ditto for search list.
You can easily select the Personal Stamps. Yes. Those who like to collect them can get them neatly separately. In the other direction, however...
I once suggested the idea of having the selection 'parameterized' on an individual level. An overview of species/types that you can tick: I want to see that and I don't want to see the non-birds. Doesn't seem to be as easy as I can describe it lol


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June 27, 2021 00:12
25% already personal stamps in the Netherlands? That is a much higher number than I had in mind.
Wouldn't it actually be more convenient with such numbers if personal stamps were split off into their own category in order to maintain a better overview of official editions?
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June 27, 2021 10:15
Now it comes from someone else :)
I do agree that these can stay in the same section, and can be added, provided a well-thought-out filter/selection system. Not only in the direction: 'I can take them out' (view separately in an overview), but also in the direction: 'I can leave them out' (not show them in an overview).
After all: they are real postage stamps. There are collectors of personal stamps.
Dividing them up because of filter possibilities that cannot handle it (yet) ... each new type should eventually be placed in a different category. And that doesn't work well in the long run either.

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June 27, 2021 10:38
Once they are official stamps, in fact: at the time at our association someone started to specialize in personal stamps because these can often be found stamped/issued where "ordinary" stamps are hardly used anymore

But since the number of personal stamps goes on indefinitely, it must be possible to select this separately, or if this is technically difficult in terms of filter options, it must be made a separate section.

In general there is only a  limited  group of collectors who really focuses on this, and for most collectors it is especially inefficient in terms of searching between all these additions
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June 27, 2021 13:16
 I do, however, maintain that these can remain in the same section, and can be added, provided a well thoughtout filter/selection system. Not only in the direction: 'I can take them out' (view them individually in an overview), but also in the direction: 'I can leave them out' (not show them in an overview).

At the moment the Personal stamps can already be filtered through the User type = Personal stamp.
If I understand you correctly, you want a Personal stamp (or other types, Types) to be excluded (filtered out) in a selection. For example, if you select the Netherlands, you will see everything except the Personal Stamp. This is probably already on the wish list, but otherwise we will add this request. However, this will not be realized in the short term.
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June 27, 2021 23:07
Raoul62 johan1614
In the first instance filtering is always done with the Standard filter, which does not contain personal stamps, right?
You will only come across personal stamps if you choose the "Everything" view instead of Standard ?
Or do you quickly encounter them via other routes?
(Raoul we know your wish to be able to set everything yourself but that's not what I mean now)
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June 27, 2021 23:58
Rene
Default does not contain everything that occurs in a typical collection. The number of scenarios where you have to go to 'everything' is very large, because 'Standard' does not suffice. Sometimes it shows too much (eg series), sometimes too little (eg port). And it always depends on what you want to do. Standard is almost never sanctifying.
There is, for example, the block/sheet problem. Nor do I know of any stamp collectors of the 'Standard' type. 'Postage', 'Pre-stamping' or 'Service' are almost always collected. In pre-print albums à la Davo, on separate leaves. But most collect stamps outside the Netherlands and areas per country/year. In an ordinary stock book, these are usually not separate. You put them at the year.

In addition, as a seller, you have to do your best to see if an item is not already present. You can only do that if you click on 'All'. There are a lot of items in the stamps section that, due to what is registered on LD, are not shown with the 'Standard' filter on. 'Unspecified', [empty], and now and then something wrongly marked ...
Searching for a stamp, and because of EVERYTHING also have to tolerate all cardboard philately and personal stamps on your screen ... Well, then you search rather not. Just add: someone else will figure it out and then put 'DOUBLURE of XXXXX' in it. That's how I get it on a silver platter. And have I already put them up for sale: the administrator will merge them. Very effective (by sheer laziness, but caused a lot of work for others).

Aside: recently experienced the disadvantage of an unfilled year of issue. You can go over and look at everything year after year ... you only come across that if you select ALL (without filter by year). Just start ...  However, it can be solved by providing the numeric field with '0' (zero) by default. Then they always come first, and in the picture. Can anyone see them immediately (automatically) and possibly do something about them. Not now. I just added a few, which turned out to be duplications of items where the release year was missing ...

And you'll just be a cardboard philatelist. FDC's, occasion envelopes, MC's, FDS, EDK, ... you can only select each individually. To see them together? Only with 'Everything'. Just start ...
The use of the type 'Without postage value' and 'perforation variety' is also sometimes dubious.

Personally, I would tick 'Series', for example, if I want to indicate my collection on LD. Those who want to indicate their collection of stamps only have the disadvantage of those items: it makes 'Select all on this page when adding bulk' almost useless. You have to click all those series items again first. You might as well click on all the stamps first.
But whoever goes looking will want to know whether the series is not cheaper than the 3 missing (from a series) separately.

What I want to say: in far too many cases you have to select 'All'. And, then really everything comes at you. All or nothing (Default) :)
That's my argument.
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June 28, 2021 10:12
Thank you for your explanation Raoul62 



Default does not contain everything in a typical collection.

What should we extend Standard with to include everything that occurs in a typical collection? So if I understand correctly with:
Use type: Port, Service and Pre-stamping
Type: Block and Sheet.
?

Indeed it is important to make the Standard view so that most collectors usually have enough.



As an aside: recently experienced the disadvantage of an unfilled year of issue. You can go over and look at everything year after year ... you only come across that if you select ALL (without filter by year).

Do you mean that the Default view does not contain items that belong there, if the year is not entered?



Personally I would, for example, tick 'Series' if I want to indicate my collection by LD. Those who want to indicate their collection of stamps only have the disadvantage of those items: it makes 'Select all on this page when adding bulk' almost useless. You have to click all those series items again first. You might as well click on all the stamps first.
But whoever goes looking will want to know whether the series is not cheaper than the 3 missing (from a series) separately.

I understood that for buyers and sellers the serial items are important because stamps are often bought and sold per series.
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June 28, 2021 11:49
Rene 
Standard in itself doesn't have to change, because there may have been enough discussions about it at the time (from way before my time :)). I don't want to be the cause of old heated discussions.
It all depends on what you as a user want to do at that moment. Sometimes you want it there, other times they disturb you and you don't want to see them pass. That is why we can also pin a selection 'parameterized per user'.
Same user: as a collector you prefer not to see the series, as a buyer (on a raid) you do want them.
For the Netherlands, if you have DAVO books, you want the postage separately (separate sheets). If you don't use DAVO for a country, then you want them to be listed.
There is no such thing as an ideal selection. Not even per individual. Not even by country. However, per type of collector / type of work / area you want to do on LD. It can vary at all times.

To avoid all 'must in' and 'must get out' discussions, a personal 'basic selection' would be the ideal solution. You can set/adjust for yourself at any time, according to the circumstances. And then do your thing for the necessary time.
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June 28, 2021 12:24
Or according to another approach:
for Dutch people, who only collect the Netherlands (and (former) areas, e.g. Suriname) and use DAVO books (a Dutch product) for that, 'Standard' is not bad (even good).
But ... internationalization ...

With the new gallery pages there was a discussion: 'not so much can be shown on one screen at the same time'. Very quickly a sublime solution came up: setting for yourself the number of items that you wanted to see next to each other in the gallery. Via your own settings page. Admittedly, that was the 'old type' settings page. But everyone was enthusiastic and full of praise.
However, then came the 'new' settings page ... gone was that option. And it would cost too much to provide that back. But ... it was sublime! Beautifully adapted to the older crowd too. If you see well, you can safely place 8 next to each other. For whom the view has become a bit more difficult ... with 3 next to each other I can also play along.
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June 28, 2021 13:49
Thanks Raoul62 

The disadvantage of making things adjustable is that it also immediately becomes more complex.
For many services - from Netflix and Youtube to the Google search engine - I can think of many options that you could set and what certain people will need, including myself. However, the success of these services is mainly due to the fact that they are very simple to understand and use.

LastDodo is already very complex for new users - we should not underestimate that - so we therefore need a good balance keep finding between offering sufficient functionality on the one hand and user-friendliness and the simplicity of things on the other.


However, then came the 'new' settings page ... that option was gone. And it would cost too much to provide that back. But ... it was sublime! Beautifully adapted to the older crowd too. If you see well, you can safely place 8 next to each other. For whom the view has become a bit more difficult ... with 3 next to each other I can also play along.

Yes, we thought so too, but in practice there was hardly anyone - really only a few users - who were going to adjust the default setting.


Standard in itself doesn't have to change, because there must have been enough discussions about that at the time (from way before my time :)). I don't want to be the cause of old heated discussions.

I can remember few heated discussions about it. Most importantly, I think it works well. Your estimation seemed to me that this would better cover their core collection for most stamp collectors:


What should we extend Default to to include everything that occurs in a typical collection? If I understand correctly, then with:
Use type: Port, Service and Pre-stamping
Type: Block and Sheet.

or not?
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June 28, 2021 14:15
But every new user, who has questions about 'standard' and thinks that things should be different (existing users as well) can then be 'guided' to their solution (wishes). To be provided only once. To be able to please everyone forever.
But it is a problem related to one category (Stamps). I understand that.
And I really don't want to get seasoned users on my roof because I want to change the 'Standard'.
Again: for Dutch people, with standard Dutch-inspired collections (the Netherlands and former areas) and Dutch products (DAVO, NVPH and Zonnebloempje)  the standard seems ok.

some users - who were going to change the default setting
You'll just be that 'single user' who can't see it all that well anymore. I continue to regret it: it was there. The techno was developed and implemented. In addition, useful in many sections.
I recently had in a purchase: got 7 of the 60 items wrong. I got them toothed instead of toothless. However, the picture was clear ... to me. Apparently not for everyone. And I don't blame the seller at all. Sometimes the 'standard' is no longer ok. Does that mean you should stop doing it? That would be a shame. One tip and guidance could greatly increase user happiness for a long period of time…  if that one feature had remained. And everyone here sooner or later runs the risk of impaired perception. Everyone, including me. The question can therefore be labeled as pure selfishness, where sooner or later everyone can benefit from it symbiotically :) :) :)

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June 28, 2021 16:55
But every new user, who has questions about 'standard' and thinks that things should be different (existing users too) can then be 'guided' to their solution (wishes). To be provided only once. To be able to please everyone forever.
But it is a problem related to one category (Stamps). I understand that.

Yep, we'll keep it in mind Raoul62 
Anyway, thanks a lot for your suggestions!
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June 29, 2021 08:26
Agree completely with Raoul.
Have had to explain to at least 20 non-Dutch speakers that they should choose "show all" as the first action so as not to miss anything, and only then select on limiting properties (year, usage type, etc. ). That is the only correct method to search and find.
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June 29, 2021 09:01
Have had to explain to at least 20 non-Dutch speakers that they should choose "show everything" as the first action so as not to miss anything, and only then select on restrictive properties (year, usage type, etc.).

7451Dick , then you are arguing for abolishing the Standard / Everything filter completely?
The consequence is that you immediately have a selection with all personal stamps, city mail, FDC's, occasion envelopes, children's thank you cards, booklets, ecu letters, maximum cards, etc. Wouldn't that just cause more confusion for the average collector who doesn't collect those items?


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June 29, 2021 09:27
Rene
Why not first click on a Country that All comes and then filter Default
Greet John.
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June 29, 2021 10:08
Why not first click on a Country that All comes and then filter Default
Greet John.

Lyonesse  Then you also have this:
The consequence is that you immediately have a selection with all personal stamps, city mail, FDC's, occasion envelopes, children's thank you cards, booklets, ecu letters, maximum cards, etc. Wouldn't that just cause more confusion for the average collector who doesn't collect those items?
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June 29, 2021 11:25
At the time (1993) during my first course as a professional literature researcher I already learned to work according to the "funnel model". Start with the entire database, then narrow it down by means of filters (country, year, type of use, etc.). Each filter reduces the number of "hits", but increases the relevance. And in the end it's all about finding that one object that you're looking for.
It all depends on the usability of the filters.
One of the first filters I would use is of course " Country". However, you have a problem as soon as you get 0(zero) as a result. This can have three causes: no "filter terms" have been added to the object (or too few), the item is not (yet) present in the database, or the search has not been done properly. That is why it is unwise to offer a selection right away; you increase the chance of misses.
- The administrators are appointed to ensure that the correct filter terms are present, among many other things.
- If not present, the user can enter an item. Sometimes filter terms are unfortunately missing.
- Wrong searches can only be prevented through good information. For example, describe all kinds of terms well (what is a personal stamp?). Knowing what you're looking for improves the results.
"Knowledge multiplies by sharing it".
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June 29, 2021 12:32
you are always dependent on the fact that all selection criteria must then be attached to a stamp. When I started adding my space stamps, I always only put Everything as a filter, because otherwise I couldn't find everything that had to do with space travel...
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June 29, 2021 13:00
Rene
With all those filters it is fine for the more experienced collectors.
But if everything comes out first, I think a new collector, or a more or less experienced collector, can start more because everything is there and I think there are less duplications as a result.
Greetings John.
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June 29, 2021 13:11
Quickly in between (I'm at work :))  Things are going great here in this thread. Very good in fact.

For me:
It is not about bad or good.
Nor about adjusting, changing or removing existing functionalities.

I think there is a need is additionally equipped with its own filter that can be set (on user level). Then you are already rid of a lot of trouble and discussion in advance.
No filter in the sense of: 'I want to see that species' (single). Because you can already do that.
There is a filter in which you can indicate which combinations Kind / Type you want to see, and which you don't (multiple). In part it comes down to 'I don't want to see that'. The reverse of the current approach to the filters. Cross section, union and difference. AND - OR - NOT.

Everything else can stay. Instead of a duo choice between 'Everything' and 'Standard' (which takes all your other selections into oblivion...) a trio choice between 'Everything', 'My view' and 'Standard'.
With that provided that 'Default' = 'you don't have to think about what you want or don't want to see, I - LD - will determine that for you'.

Elements that are important:
- LD, previously CW, has its roots in the Netherlands. For the majority of existing users, and some new ones, 'Standard' can be an advantage (see my previous posts on this);
- LD is going more and more international. For non-native speakers, collectors who are not from the Netherlands (or Flanders), this 'Standard' raises a lot of questions. And it also leads to deception.
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June 29, 2021 13:43
For non-native speakers, collectors who are not from the Netherlands (or Flanders), the 'Standard' raises a lot of questions.
For my understanding, what questions does this raise that Dutch collectors don't have?
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