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  • September 30, 2022 22:41
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September 30, 2022 22:41
Good evening everyone,
Just a question about under which condition I should put stamps that are uncancelled but seem to have no gum anymore or not. I'm running into these more and more, and put them aside because I don't know how to place them. Thank you very much for your thoughts and answer

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September 30, 2022 23:39
dalros81

They have the condition 'Unused'.
Unused is actually a damaged seal: the gum is (partly) off or something strange is hanging on it (sticky).

Clip strips have always been quite expensive, and the 'sticky' was a cheap alternative. Unfortunately, MNH stamps with a sticker in a collection are no longer MNH. They are damaged, and are given the condition 'Unused'.
There were also collectors who had the brilliant idea: lick and paste. What else would that gum be for...
Pasted or with adhesive: they are often soaked to get rid of the fragment and the adhesive. Then the gum is completely gone.
More expensive stamps are sometimes 'gummed'. Even then the stamp remains 'unused'. After all, the original gum is no longer intact, and the seal is a damaged one.

An unused stamp can never approach the same catalog value as a MNH. Usually that is 50% because of that damage.

I know collectors who do not want unused copies in their collection. Not even as a placeholder (cavity filler). Just like there are collectors who don't want to degrade their collection with CTO copies.
The latter is a defect on LD. Real run (stamped) and CTO (also stamped) are under one condition: stamped.
May have already sparked heated discussions between buyers and sellers.

A difficulty are the stamps that were originally ungummed. There, the difference between 'MNH' and 'unused' is very difficult. Unless a patch was used, and the traces of it are still visible.
Then you have certain countries (mainly from central Africa) that used special gum on the stamps (exotic gum for example).
Certain of those gums are almost imperceptible (matte). You only know if you lick it, but then the stamp is no longer mint :)
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  • 36 messages
  • September 30, 2022 23:49
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September 30, 2022 23:49
Raoul62 Thank you very much for this clear explanation, I will now post them in the unused condition. Even if I'm not sure whether they are gummed or not. Because I won't be able to see that with the naked eye.
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az60
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October 01, 2022 05:42
I know collectors who do not want unused copies in their collection. Not even as a placeholder (cavity filler).
These are collectors who have the stamps with the gummed side visible in the album :-).
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October 01, 2022 08:54
gummed side visible
They often put their collection in (very) expensive Lindner preprint albums.
Stamps are then placed in a plastic insert that is separate from the cardboard pre-printing sheet. Can they always easily see the backs.
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  • October 01, 2022 13:46
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October 01, 2022 13:46
According to the conditions, gum is always present at MNH and Unused. I myself therefore place them as stamped and in the comments "no stamp and gum".

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October 01, 2022 15:21
ApiSta

I can't find that text in the current manual. Can you let me know where that is?

An unused stamp does not contain a stamp (because it has not been used).
So you can't catalog it as 'Stamped'.
That 'unused' description is therefore incorrect, it should change.

There used to be a lot of collectors of 'MNH', who stuck those things in stockbooks / pre-print albums / self-made sheets.

The 'sticker' was the cheapest commercial solution.
But there were collectors who didn't want to spend even a few cents on it, and worked with licks, or extra glue, or scraps of sheet edge.
Anyone who accidentally got hold of such a collection and wanted to use those stamps to supplement their own collection, or to allocate (sell), often had no choice but to 'soak loose in water'. The stamps remain unused in my opinion, but the water made sure that the gum was gone.

In addition, there are the MNH that clearly bear traces of amateurs who did not know that tweezers existed. Fingers always give off something, even on the gum. And you can see that after a few years (usually obvious).
That too is 'Unused'.

If an unstamped copy, without gum, should not be considered 'Unused', then I have to change the rating of all my sellers here from green to red. Because in almost all cases where I ordered an 'Unused' copy, I got one without a stamp, and also without gum. So basically a Stamped?
And if I order a stamped one, I want to see a piece of stamp. Even if it's just a zigzag line or a little bit of roundness.
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October 01, 2022 15:36
Found where it is. Logical, with the explanation about the conditions :)
Collectioneur$postmaster
I think that explanation about the conditions should be adjusted.
Otherwise we will have a 'fictional' condition that is not provided on LD: no stamp (so certainly not 'stamped') and no gum (so also not 'unused') ... Can hardly be regarded as 'MNH I thought so .

PS: we actually already have a fictitious condition: CTO. They have not been used and are not mint. Anyone who collects 'stamped' wants real copies, not tourist souvenirs.
Both MNH and unused are postage valid (or would have been in their validity period if already expired). Postage valid: you can use them for what they were intended for: sending mail.
They are marked with a stamp (cannot be used anymore because they have already been used).
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  • October 01, 2022 16:14
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October 01, 2022 16:14
And I just think that the conditions had already been well thought out.

Thank you Raoul62, Clear! and we are waiting for the adjusted conditions.
I thought the manual was mainly for adding items to the catalog and the hints and tips in the various forms would be derived from that. So miss :(
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October 01, 2022 16:26
Raoul62 postmaster
Please provide clear text for all three conditions of stamps.
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October 01, 2022 17:40
Better is an extension to five conditions of stamps. CTO and unused without gum. Unfortunately this is not possible, I know.
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October 01, 2022 18:05
I don't understand this one

unused without gum

Because unused with gum is MNH, so unused without gum = unused, or am I crazy?
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October 01, 2022 18:24
Unused with gum is then with adhesive or with pencil / ink on the back.
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  • October 01, 2022 18:38
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October 01, 2022 18:38
* Unused
Without stamp, but with partly or completely missing original gum. Sometimes with sticker (leftover).
*Unused
Without postmark, but with partly or completely missing original gum. Sometimes with a hinge (remnant).
* Inutilized
Sans oblitération, mais avec gomme originale partiellement ou totalment manquante. Parfois avec (trace de) charniere.
* Unused
Ohne Stamp, aber mit teilweise oder ganz fehlender Original gummierung. Manchmal mit Falz (rest).

(To hurry.)
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October 01, 2022 19:51
stripspeldjes
bang! bang it :)
I already agree.
Collectioneur
I think the proposal of Strip Pins is ok. But who am I...
The other conditions seem clear enough to me.
Morits
or am i crazy
No, definitely not.
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October 01, 2022 20:23
The text at "*Unused" has been changed, thanks for the proposal stripspeldjes
If there are any improvements that need to be made, let me know.
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October 01, 2022 21:05
The stripspeldjes proposal can also be used to accommodate stamps that have been used (ie pasted on an envelope to send a letter), but have been delivered without actually being stamped (undone, oblitéré). I already received an envelope several times, of which, for example, 3 stamps were canceled and 2 were not. The stamps were therefore 'used' but in fact 'unused' for the catalogue.
In my opinion, such stamps could be reused for postage, but fine.
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October 01, 2022 22:57
That's getting along ;-)

(I didn't notice the double meaning until later, but my intention was to emphasize the last word.)
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  • October 02, 2022 09:01
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October 02, 2022 09:01
Maybe with unused or MNH a reference to the fingerprint?. Many of these stamps, ie with fingerprints, are often sold as MNH. If this is clearly stated in the explanation of the condition of the stamp, it is easier for a buyer of these stamps to submit an objection to the seller.
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October 02, 2022 10:17
reference to the fingerprint
Where the fingerprint is there is no eraser. Sometimes other gum :) but even then the description is conclusive:
with partly or completely missing original gum
Original means: authentic (not a creative alternative in other words)

It should be obvious to a seller that an unused stamp is equivalent to a damaged MNH stamp (if the original was a gummed stamp).
As already mentioned, there is a gray zone with non-gummed expenses.
As a seller you have to pay close attention to how you put it in your shop. Usually they are already more expensive ones, and a buyer will look at them carefully with different types of light and magnifying glasses. At the slightest trace that it is an ex-paste seal ... then you as a seller take your responsibility (better watch out).
Again, you can quickly see how 'accurate' they are by the nature of the additions in a seller's catalog. Whoever adds an item with 'Sir' as title, without year or issue ... For me that says a lot.
Don't just look at the feedback score, especially if you buy more expensive stamps, or orders for a large amount.

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  • October 02, 2022 10:22
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October 02, 2022 10:22
I also think it's a great proposal of stripspeldjes.
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  • October 13, 2022 14:31
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October 13, 2022 14:31
Now I really don't remember, now have a seal with original gum completely intact. Yet it is stamped in the corner, what condition does it fall under now?
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Morits
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October 13, 2022 14:53
dalros81
This falls under unused.
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  • October 13, 2022 14:56
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October 13, 2022 14:56
Morits but it is stamped in the corner, and the description of the condition says unused, without stamp, but with partly or completely missing original gum. Sometimes with sticker (leftover). So I find it confusing
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  • October 13, 2022 15:20
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October 13, 2022 15:20
If it is stamped it is "Stamped" regardless of whether it has gum or not. That's my idea anyway.
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