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Helv
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November 28, 2022 01:57
The Russian on stamp #1702061 translates as "shrew". As an administrator, I can therefore agree with someone adding the Theme / Motif "Mouse".

However, az60 has reversed this addition and I can agree with that too, because if you look at Wikipedia it says that "Shrews are often called mice, but they are not: they belong to the order insectivores ".

Which overrides the linguistic reason, "a mouse is a mouse" or the biological "not everything called mouse is a mouse"?

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November 28, 2022 08:12
Don't turn a mouse into an elephant. It is about the "findability" of the stamp, for example for a collector of the theme "mice". If you do not include that theme with this stamp, it will not be found. But that's okay. Someone who takes a closer look at the theme will also know that a shrew is not a mouse.
On the other hand, who will be able to decipher the Cyrillic inscription? The translation "shrew" will be reserved for only a few. My preference is therefore to only mention Shrew as the animal depicted, without specifying a theme of "mice".
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November 28, 2022 08:38
The little one here also wanted to do something with stamps, stamps with plants.
Everything that grows in nature.
Neat per part: flowers, trees, shrubs (sometimes difficult).
And within each part, if several are present, further subdivided (Roses, tulips, ...).
Then it suddenly turned out that mushrooms were not flora (theme was removed everywhere) ... and she couldn't see the overview anymore.
She's stopped. Those stamp men are way too complicated.

But it's scientifically correct (sigh). If you collect stamps within the theme 'everything that grows in nature' (ie: the flora), you may not keep stamps with mushrooms.
Thankfully, she didn't relaunch with the "mice" theme.
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az60
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November 28, 2022 16:08
Which overrides the linguistic reason, "a mouse is a mouse" or the biological "not everything called mouse is a mouse"?
The reason for using a biological definition has both a linguistic reason and a collection-technical reason. First, a suffix (in this case mouse to shrew) is used to indicate that a shrew resembles a mouse. But also that it's not a mouse. For example, a sperm whale is not a fish. It would be very strange if a sperm whale were put in the fish section and in the marine mammal section at the same time. And do we add a sea cucumber to the vegetables? And we put a seahorse and a hippopotamus with the horses, a slowworm with the worms, a leopard seal with the leopards and the horses, the yellow and the white tiger (moths) with the tigers, and so I can fill a whole page of nonsense. to get. If Lastdodo wants to make fun of itself, then this must be done consistently.
Other languages also play a role. A shrew is a shrew in English and a musaraigne in French. So it has nothing to do with mice. An Englishman and a Frenchman will immediately remove a shrew from the motif/theme mice. Just as well as we in the Netherlands will remove a hedgehog from the swine category. Because a hedgehog in English is a hedgehog. And there are many more examples of other name references in other countries.
Thirdly, it is the only way for a motif/thematic collector to get a somewhat structured overview of his/her collection. A series like #4347069 is in 9 very different places in my albums (and no, the saber-toothed tiger is not among the tigers). A motif bear collector wants to see stamps with bears. And no cormorants, pelicans, turtles, jaguars, rock badgers, lobsters, monkeys, porcupines, manatees, butterflies, crocodiles, fish and shrews. That is why, at Arco's request, I have removed all stamps with the WWF symbol (a panda bear) from the bears section. As a motif collector, you certainly don't want 'contamination' of the mice section with shrews. Instead of putting shrews with the mice, you make the motif collector happier with the new section shrews. And Basses and Marsupials and Lungfishes and Monitor Lizards and Falcons and....
That is why I have mainly used biological criteria in the background info pages, because they apply to all countries and are therefore not language dependent. In principle, the definitions are also fairly constant, despite the fact that new rDNA research is currently generating many new insights.
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az60
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November 28, 2022 16:13
It's about the "findability" of the seal,
Theme / Motif and depicted on stamp are very essential fields for many motif collectors. The search function is very subordinate to this for them. Where findability can be combined, this should certainly be done. But the function of effectively selecting stamps is by far my top priority.
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Helv
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November 28, 2022 16:24
az60 Thank you for your detailed explanation. In the meantime I have even "de-mouse" another stamp from the same series. Someone added "mouse" when you removed it once before.

Are there also specific agreements on the theme "Buildings". It's starting to look like someone is systematically removing it. Based on previous statements that themes can be very comprehensive (eg a church is also a building, so both themes), I equally consistently disapprove. Wrong?
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az60
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November 28, 2022 17:15
At the moment there is no definition of what a building is at LastDodo. There is no background information yet. So all is right (or wrong). However, there is a nice explanation/definition on Wikipedia. Because everyone (including an administrator) can always have different views, I usually see Wikipedia as a neutral standard. If it met that requirement, I approved it, if not, I rejected it. And according to Wikipedia, a church is a building, so I would approve.

The addition theme makes it tricky. That can be very varied. In space travel, you may want to have a pairing with dogs or monkeys. Maybe you add an angelfish or a sunfish. That is so diverse and you should leave it to the collector himself. So only display motifs and let a thematic collector look there for what he/she needs.
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Helv
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November 29, 2022 09:23
az60 also do you know what the guideline is for the geographic theme?
#2180357 was issued on the occasion of the Apollo-Soyuz docking. In the background are the Soviet and American flags.
Someone added the Theme Soviet Union and United States to it. Someone else wants to take this down again.
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November 29, 2022 09:26
Got a complaint from a bat about discrimination.
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Helv
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November 29, 2022 10:10
7451Dick reject. Bats are honored with their own Theme/Motif.
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az60
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November 29, 2022 11:37
Helv
This one is trickier. This is because there is a very big difference between theme and motif. If you look at it from the themes, then it seems correct to me. The Apollo was American, the Soyuz Russian. So that's right. Looking at it from a geography perspective, I'd say no. The pairing did not take place on American or Russian territory, but in space. I would choose the latter, but I admit that this is arbitrary and personal. That is also because there are no clear guidelines here.
The problem lies with the addition of theme in the theme / motif field, the Geographical theme field and the People theme field. I would immediately delete the word theme from the fields and replace it with a better option. Because no one can properly judge a theme. A fictional example:
The son of cosmonaut Kubasov was a famous cyclist who competed for Russia in the Atlanta Olympics. (Add: cycling, sports, Olympic games, USA, Atlanta, Viktor Kubasov). astronaut Slayton's parents were farmers with a vineyard, orchard and cattle and horses (fill in the blanks). The astronaut's wife Brand had Don Quichotte as a favorite book. Coincidentally, she was called Miller from her last name. The link with windmills as a theme is quickly made. The Apollo also flew over Cuba and China and landed in the Pacific Ocean, near Hawaii. We can go on like this for a while. etc. etc.....
All of this can never be checked and judged. So scrap that theme stuff, but keep the motifs. A real theme collector draws up his/her own storyline and looks up what is needed from the motives.
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Helv
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November 29, 2022 14:53
az60 If I understand correctly, thematic collectors actually collect motifs on stamps and (almost) non-themed stamps. In that case your proposal is a lot clearer.

Collectioneur is this problem limited to stamps or does it also apply to other categories and if so how was it solved there?
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November 29, 2022 15:04
Helv
I think only the field under Stamps has the name "Themes / Motifs".
Other rubrics that work with themes just call that field "Theme".
I can imagine someone collecting everything about football and/or the Dutch national team, regardless of the motif on an item.

I do not know of stamp collectors whether they collect their collection by motif or by theme. Presumably both ways are used.
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az60
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November 29, 2022 15:14
I would say that thematic collectors want to put down a story and illustrate that story with stamps. In the fictional story of Kubasov, you tell a story about that man. About his grandparents what they did. Maybe he was a farmer. Then you illustrate that with a stamp of (preferably a Russian) farmer from that time. Perhaps his father fought in World War II and was killed there. Must be a lot of stamps to illustrate that. Or maybe he died during (and because of) Stalin's regime. A few stamps of Stalin included. Then he himself was born in village X. Perhaps there is a franking stamp, canceled in that village, preferably in his year of birth. You involve his wife in the story, his children. You say that the Soyuz mission eased the cold war. You illustrate the "presidents" involved in the mission, Khrushchev, Kennedy, Nixon. Maybe he got a medal and it can be found on a stamp.
A motif collector collects by motif, such as butterflies or birds. Or someone who saves elephants or volcanoes or comic stamps. Of course there are intermediate forms (like me) between what I call a thematic collector and a motif collector.
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Helv
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November 29, 2022 15:34
I understand that a Theme collection is very personal: what story do you want to tell? That is almost impossible to capture for a larger group of collectors / managers. A thematic collector does look for motifs to tell his story. These motives are much less personal.

Personally, I am fine with only including motifs.
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November 30, 2022 10:31
Helv
A building is a man-made (semi) permanent object, intended to carry out a human activity.
So subspecies house, school, church, sports hall, etc. are included. So not a beehive, but a cow shed or warehouse (surviving through winter stock of food). Borderline squirrels with a supply of nuts is also ruled out, because no human activity.
Now take a look at what Wikipedia says.
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Helv
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November 30, 2022 11:57
7451Dick there are still unwritten rules on LD. They are not in Wikipedia, but I think it is a good reason to reject certain changes from users with much more experience.
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November 30, 2022 12:51
Theme cute is missing ...
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