Comic books/isbn54 messages

Isbn numbers, also something like that. Sometimes I come across them with spaces, sometimes with dashes, sometimes just in one piece. I don't know if for example dashes cause problems in a search function?

Een ISBN (de n staat voor nummer) hoort met streepjes, ook al worden ze somds zonder streepjes in de boeken gezet.
Tot vorig jaar zag een Nederlands ISBN er als volgt uit:
90-uuuuu-vv-c
90 is het landnummer, de u’tjes staan voor uitgeversnummer, de v’tjes voor volgnummer en de c voor controlegetal.
De lengte van zowel uitgeversnummer als volgnummer wisselt. Afhankelijk van de hoeveelheid boeken die men verwacht uit te gaan geven krijgt men een aantal posities voor het volgnummer. De resterende posities zijn dan het uitgeversnummer.
Een grote uitgever als Standaard heeft uitgeversnummer 02, waardoor er lekker veel volgnummers door hen kunnen worden gebruikt.
Een kleine uiitgever als Stripstift heeft nummer 74539 waardoor er maar 2
posities (100 boeken) overblijven voor het volgnummer. Als de volgnummers op zijn krijgt de uitgeverij een nieuw uitgeversnummer toegekend. Dat is kortgeleden gebeurd bij Lombard, meen ik.
Als je niet weet waar de streepjes moeten komen, tik dan het nummer als één getal in. Dat wordt later vanzelf aangepast door iemand die het wel weet.
Vanaf 2007 gaan alle Nederlandse nummers vooraf door de code 978- of 979-.

An ISBN (the n stands for number) belongs with dashes, even though they are sometimes put in the books without dashes.
Until last year, a Dutch ISBN looked like this:
90-uuuuu-vv-c
90 is the country code, the u's stand for publisher number, the v's for serial number and the c for control number.
The length of both publisher number and serial number varies. Depending on the amount of books expected to be published, a number of positions are assigned for the serial number. The remaining positions are then the publisher number.
A large publisher such as Standaard has publisher number 02, which means that they can use a lot of serial numbers.
A small publisher like Stripstift has number 74539 , so there are only 2
positions (100 books) remain for the serial number. When the serial numbers have run out, the publisher is assigned a new publisher number. That happened recently at Lombard, I believe.
If you don't know where to place the dashes, type the number as one number. That will be adjusted later by someone who does know.
From 2007, all Dutch numbers are preceded by the code 978- or 979-.

I don't think the dashes in themselves have any meaning in the code do they? For example, at bol.com I see them without dashes.
If I understand correctly, books have a ISBN10 and / or ISBN13 number. Do we have to include 2 fields for that?

De streepjes hebben in die zin nut dat je dan in één oogopslag ziet of het klopt, vanwege de ondervedeling tussen de streepjes. Anders is het één grote rij cijfers. Het woordbeeld is dus rustiger.
Vanaf 1 januari 2007 is er ISBN-13, daarvoor was er officieel alleen ISBN-10, maar mocht je in 2006 alvast ISBN-13 erbij zetten.
Boeken met een ISBN-10 worden niet hernummerd, behalve misschien bij een herdruk, maar die zit of komt toch apart in Catawiki.
Een tweede veld is dus niet nodig.

The lines are useful in the sense that you can see at a glance whether it is correct, because of the subdivision between the lines. Otherwise it is one big row of numbers. So the word image is calmer.
From January 1, 2007 there is ISBN -13, before that there was officially only ISBN -10, but you could already add ISBN -13 in 2006.
Books with an ISBN -10 will not be renumbered, except perhaps with a reprint, but that will be or will be separately in Catawiki.
A second field is therefore not necessary.

I thought ISBN13 was related to UAC code? (Barcode on the back of the album). And that doesn't always match the isbn number noted inside the album.

The barcode on the back is called the EAN or UAC and it was always 13 digits long, even when the ISBN was only 10 years long.
Now that the ISBN is also 13 long, they are usually equal to each other, until one of both change something again.
They just don't have to be equal if there are two publishers involved: one as a publisher in the comics world and one as a publisher in the literary world, but that is not common.

In itself clear. By my point about the dashes I meant that although they provide clarity in the subdivision, they are also unique as a number without dashes. Isn't that true?

Yes, it is. Don't get scared, René! (;-)

Very enlightening! I learn a lot here on Saturday night…

I'm not scared that easily, but luckily that saves a lot of corrective work :-)

It seems logical to me that a search option on ISBN number will be added later. It is a unique song with which one specific album can be found very quickly.
Is it therefore only natural that the ISBN number should be entered in a uniform way in one sequence of numbers (ie without dashes or spaces)?
An example:
ISBN of first edition “de rode ridder” album 106:
90 02 14829 1 (printed like this on the back cover of the album)
90-02148-29 -1 (according to Arco's method)
9002148291 (in one sequence of numbers)
Which one to choose now? The latter option seems to me to be the most universal in any case, certainly when I look at just about all other book sites and library sites anywhere ...

This was indeed exactly my point, this way of noting is always possible. And it is very useful if you can search on isbn, after all, that is the idea behind an isbn number, it is unique so it is handy to search. If the fill-in box is defined so that it does not accept spaces or dashes, you can be sure that it is done uniformly.

After all, if you want more information about what the ISBN number means or how it is structured, you can still turn to wikipedia or this forum or…
Because I don't think that's the point here. It is about cataloging on the one hand and being able to retrieve data on the other.

I am also in favor of displaying ISBN numbers as a pure sequence of numbers. So without dashes. People are allowed to enter it with dashes or spaces though. That may make it easier for some people to enter it. We can then easily filter out those signs.
We still have to convert the existing ISBN numbers to pure series of numbers. And enable searching for ISBN in the search bar.
Arco: what do you think of this as a ISBN expert?

If the dashes (or spaces) can indeed be filtered from a search or from the entered item, I have no real preference. For now I enter all ISBN numbers without dashes.

Entering the WITH dashes ensures that you can do a good check later on the combination publisher number / publisher.
I use that a lot myself in the giga database of Stripschrift reviews and get a lot of errors out as a result.
Really gives administrators an extra tool.
Believe me: without dashes it is a knit number (and the possible LETTER X , of course, on the last postion of the ISBN -10's) that is not clear at a glance and makes control difficult It would be nice if the system internally removes all dashes and dots internally, checks whether it is a valid ISBN , and the ISBN declines if not.
Also saves.

Het automatisch checken op het al dan niet geldig zijn van een ISBN zou inderdaad prettig zijn
én
is waarschijnlijk niet zo heel moeilijk in te bouwen?

Automatically checking whether or not an ISBN is valid would indeed be nice
and
probably not that hard to install?

No, that will be easy. Especially with Arco as a source of knowledge in the background :-)

En wat als het een album is waarvoor er nog geen ISBN-nummering bestond?
Dan gewoon leeglaten
of “geen”
of “niet aanwezig”
of “geen ISBN”
of …
invullen?

And what if it's an album for which there was no ISBN number yet?
Then just leave it blank
or "none"
or "not present"
or “no ISBN ”
or …
fill?

Until now, 'none has been filled in.'
If you see that, users know that there is no ISBN in the album.
The field just leaving it blank can also mean it hasn't been detected yet.

Met “geen” kan ik mij perfect vinden. Dat is eigenlijk het antwoord dat ik wilde horen, want zo is het inderdaad meteen ook duidelijk dat het effectief gecontroleerd is dat er zich in/op het album geen ISBN-nummer bevindt.

With "none" I can find myself perfectly. That is actually the answer I wanted to hear, because then it is indeed immediately clear that it has been effectively checked that there is no ISBN number in/on the album.

Books older than 1970? do not have an ISB number anyway

That's right. ISBN originated at a worldwide conference on standards in 1969.

And before that, there was something like SBN in England, a 9-digit code on which ISBN is ultimately based on. This already existed since 1966. (At least, I read that from Wikipedia anyway.) So if there are also English editions in Catawiki here, perhaps it is best to immediately enter “none” everywhere in the editions from before 1966.

That's a good idea. We are going to enter “none” in the ISBN field for all non-English comics and books older than 1970 and for English pre-1966 books.