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July 22, 2022 09:00
Don't open my mouth...because I've written very long posts about it already :)

Yep, but I think they meet all the criteria for the stamp category so it still seems logical to me to keep them there. And they are not in the Default filter either, so you don't see them directly. Do you have another solution without us having to make a personal setting? Because we don't want to make those at category level Raoul62
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July 22, 2022 09:46
Do you have another solution without us having to make a personal setting?

Well, since you're asking, yes. Only include the 'frame' of a personal stamp in the catalogue. With the correct first date of issue, and a good (appropriate) date of issue.

It doesn't matter which gentleman, madam, cat (/pussy) or mussel is on it. A collector can add such a frame hundreds of times in his own collection and shop. With own image(s).
Are we finally rid of a lot of junk?

Take a look at the Netherlands: filter on 'Everything', and look backwards in the gallery. From page 573 to 583. Hundreds of items for which I no longer dare to pronounce the typical term.

Ordinary pictures, which happen to show some teeth on the sides, are also removed #583597 . That item mars the catalog, and has been for almost 13 years now!
Good for those who believe in fairy tales, and think that one day someone will fill the item correctly with useful data and an image. Maybe in 13 years with techniques that have not yet been invented?

It's already starting in Japan. How can someone based on an image #8776875 going to determine afterwards which frame was used? The Personal Stamp frames of Japan are slightly different from year to year. You need a very good detailed scan, the dimensions of the frame, the total dimensions of the stamp, and the dimensions of the letters, and the exact, true-to-life color nuances.
I've already lost hours to it and gritted my teeth.
No, it will never work that way and monstrosities are added that will still look just as hideous in 20 years' time. There is only a good chance that it will no longer be hundreds, but hundreds of thousands.

Unfortunately, I can't decide on that.
I can only give ideas (and describe them in detail).

eg. create one item 2009 Personal Stamp with NVPH 2563:


Title: 'Frame Personal Stamp 2009'

Let collectors include that in their collection or shop with their own images of the level #2440705 , #527233 , #754033 , #2444173 , #2593671 , #5522377 , #2590549 , #2592885 , #5980797 , #844195 , ...
The collector or shop owner can place the very enlightening own titles in his own notes.
Everyone happy!
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July 22, 2022 10:09
Take a look at the Netherlands: filter on 'Everything', and look backwards in the gallery. From page 573 to 583. Hundreds of items for which I no longer dare to pronounce the typical term.

I do see them. There is also a lot of city and regional mail in between.

We've said it before, but LastDodo is there for all items that are made serially, in edition. These personal stamps are not unique but printed in edition and mail was even sent with them. So I don't think - just because you hate them - you can say they shouldn't be included. Others may find this type of perforation variants and plate errors unclear and a pollution of the database, but that does not mean that we should therefore remove them. There are also collectors of personal stamps, just as there are collectors of plate errors, perforation and paper varieties, etc.

I can imagine that we'll come up with something to better filter them out or something.




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July 22, 2022 10:16
Ordinary pictures, which happen to show some teeth on the sides, are also removed #583597 . That item mars the catalog, and has been for almost 13 years now!
Good for those who believe in fairy tales, and think that one day someone will fill the item correctly with useful data and an image. Maybe in 13 years with techniques that have not yet been invented?

Given the history, in which the image was also removed, this has indeed become a very unclear item. Shouldn't this just go away?
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July 22, 2022 10:56
unclear

If you select that way, yes. It once again underlines the importance of 'Issuance'.
A field that I (and many others) would rather see 'mandatory' (with minimum check, in combination with mandatory field Year) than now a free field. Don't fill it in and you can't get an error on it either...
Leaving it blank = huge consequences for all other collectors. Laziness leads to chaos and disappointment. Will be a problem for certain sellers I suppose. Not all of them, the majority are doing great. But especially the new 'young' violence thinks it's fine that you don't have to fill in all that to fill up a shop.
Select per issue (click on an item and then click on the issue name). Then you see the main stamps first, then the series item. Then all those rarities and deviations follow. Neat per 'type' deviation.
Admittedly with an excess ... many items are three types at the same time: Color Variety, Perforation Variety and Type Variety. That makes it difficult, but only for those who love those deviations. An 'ordinary' collector leaves that ballast for what it is. He fills up his Davo book, and the normal stamps (and possibly the series item) are enough.
Conclusion: nothing is what it seems. It is indeed clear thanks to 'Issue'.



Shouldn't this just go away?

Yes but how? It's not duplication, and image-less items are jealously protected (with the excuse: someone may someday, in the distant future, fill it up... and then the well-added items might be branded duplication...) .
I have written about it several times ... nothing works (Catweezle).

Sometimes I wonder about an item that is in the collection of 25 users, but no image.
Either those users are lazy, or long dead, or incompetent, or left disappointed, or they don't know what they clicked on. None of those 5 situations is right.



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July 22, 2022 12:55
Ordinary pictures, which happen to show some teeth on the sides
What meets the above definition does not belong in the stamp category.
But personal stamps are postage -enabled, so you can't claim they aren't stamps, they are more than the fantasy products that are now being concealed in the Cinderella areas.

eg. create one item 2009 Personal Stamp with NVPH 2563:
Getting everything under a "basic seal" seems like a bad idea to me, because I thought we would all agree by now that there should be no non-existent items in the catalog, in any category.

I agree that it will be a mess if no one fills out the Issue, But lately (when correcting face values) I've also come across a lot of "regular" stamps that have been entered very carelessly. With nonsensical titles, no issue name (even if a year has been entered), no theme, and with images that will make you doubt your own eyes.

Yes but how?
Postmaster can merge it with #6910751 . No one will miss it.
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July 22, 2022 13:14
PS Shouldn't a distinction (to begin with) be made between "personal stamps" that were issued in large quantities by TNT Post / PostNL (and which also receive an NVPH number), and real personal stamps (of private persons) with a free interpretation within the standard frame?
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July 22, 2022 15:00
Boekenmagazijn

Indeed, there is a very big difference.
In Belgium there are also created by bPost (thematically: cats, dogs, ...).
Very lucrative, but still reasonable in quality.

The 'completed' frames by the home, garden and kitchen user, there are hundreds of thousands of different ones, of which you will never find out who or what is on them. That's only good for a family photo album (albeit). And it is mainly those items that are added off-the-cuff with only a title such as 'Sir', 'My dog', 'Summer love with the girls next door' and 'My drunk aunt'. For the rest they figure at the very back of the catalog, untraceable for collectors. Useless.
As soon as there are 1,000 Dutch items without year or issue in the stamp section on LD, I will post a message about them at 'Milestones'. Won't be long.

A catalog is there to be able to look up relevant information about an item. No kindergarten book with viewing pictures, and no facebook either.

If you stick your own photo (selfie) with pritt on 10 identical strips on the inside, you have 'Personal Strips'. An idea to get rid of an unwanted stock? They are no longer the same as the original album (personalised), and they are not unique but made in edition.
Just add in the comics section! :)

Rene
Do you already have this?
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July 22, 2022 15:15
Raoul62 ,

Perhaps you could consider the arguments that according to the overall principles these items are allowed to be imported on LastDodo (series production), have personal stamps postage value and they are collected.

Your personal annoyance is not a reason to exclude things from this platform, is it?
Someone else might think collecting tea bags is nonsense, or might be annoyed by beer coasters. Then we can keep busy.

The fact that certain information has or has not been entered can be the case for every item on LastDodo if it does not concern mandatory fields. This applies to personal stamps, but also to all other stamps.

As mentioned, we can always talk about how the filters in the stamp section could work best.
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July 22, 2022 15:53
Also, I don't understand why "personal stamps" is classified under Usage type. Isn't it just a stamp for Franking...?!

In the meantime I also found a page with a fairly clear explanation of how the (Dutch) issues are put together: What is a personal stamp .

Don't you think it would be a good idea to create an Issue Name for each specific 'frame' (frame), from which everyone can recognize in which period the stamps were issued. Stamps that cannot be traced back to a particular year or series can then be collected there. (Then not all those individual private stamps need to have their own Issue Name.)

For example:
2007-2010 Gray frame 44 euro cents

2008-2010 Red/green frame 34 euro cents

etc.
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July 22, 2022 15:59
Don't you think it would be a good idea to create an Issue Name for each specific 'frame' (frame), from which everyone can recognize in which period the stamps were issued. Stamps that cannot be traced back to a particular year or series can then be collected there. (Then not all those individual private stamps need to have their own Issue Name.)

That seems like a good way to structure Boekenmagazijn!
That makes it much clearer I think.
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July 22, 2022 17:45
Nice to see that what an ex-administrator started at the time (and was brought down) is now being suggested again (it wasn't me by the way).
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July 22, 2022 17:46
Given the history, in which the image was also removed, this has indeed become a very unclear item. Shouldn't this just go away?
Cleaned up.
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July 22, 2022 18:17
briefmarke
Can you also share with us the reasoning why it didn't go through at the time?
Perhaps we are overlooking something about this idea.
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July 22, 2022 18:39
Wow, great discussion, from 2009 to 2014, with the famous Rein and Sinbad: Personal stamps .
If I don't remember anything about it, I'll have to re-read it first.

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July 22, 2022 20:40
Also, I don't understand why "personal stamps" is classified under Usage type. Isn't it just a stamp for Franking...?!

Otherwise you wouldn't be able to see the personal stamps together, right Boekenmagazijn ?
In fact, it is also a specialization of franking stamps. Just like airmail stamps, for example.

Wow, great discussion, from 2009 to 2014, with the famous Rein and Sinbad: Personal stamps .
If I don't remember anything about it, I'll have to re-read it first.

Yes, there have been many heated discussions over the years about how to classify personal stamps. It is clear that this is not easy and that there is no common system that is used everywhere.
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July 22, 2022 21:04
Otherwise you wouldn't be able to see the personal stamps together, right
But it has nothing to do with using it.
Airmail stamps cannot be used to frank an ordinary letter.
Wouldn't it make more sense to call personal stamps a Species ?
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July 22, 2022 21:56
Boekenmagazijn
Of course it's not a usage type, I really don't understand how it's named that way. It's an ordinary, outright, nothing but a postage stamp. Point.
Just hang under Type. Nothing wrong with that.
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July 22, 2022 22:01
But it has nothing to do with using it.

I would just think they are for personal use Boekenmagazijn
But hey, some kind could also be possible. Most importantly, I think you can see them together.
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July 23, 2022 11:09
As for the framing of personal stamps, it has been tried, but no one turned out to be able to work with it. The frame can be a tool to date something, but sometimes those years stay the same and you get a huge issue with hundreds of stamps. So we started working with issue titles again that refer to the reason for issue or the theme on it.

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July 23, 2022 11:18
What I also want to mention here is that there are users and administrators who work on the personal seals with great zeal and pleasure. A lot of research has already been done in, for example, the Netherlands.
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July 23, 2022 15:44
As for the framing of personal stamps, it has been tried, but no one turned out to be able to work with it. The frame can be a tool to date something, but sometimes those years stay the same and you get a huge issue with hundreds of stamps. So we started working with issue titles again that refer to the reason for issue or the theme on it.

Clearly postmaster
Glad you at least tried it.

What I also want to mention here is that there are users and administrators who work on the personal seals with great zeal and pleasure. A lot of research has already been done in, for example, the Netherlands.

Yes, I've also had emails from people who mainly collect personal stamps and are very happy with the overview of personal stamps on LastDodo. It can undoubtedly be even better, but we must not forget that this is information that you will not easily find elsewhere.
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Can these be merged or made distinct? I made an overview of all duplicate issue names in Excel. There are 45. Thanks in advance!

1894 Postage Stamps(34)
1894 Postage Stamps(2)
1932 Children and Flowers(7)
1932 Children and flowers (1)(6)
1941 Flying Pigeon(17)
1941 Flying Pigeon(25)
1967 Red Cross(7)
1967 Red Cross(8)
1970 New Civil Code(2)
1970 New Civil Code(5)
1972 Children Stamps(54)
1972 Children Stamps(1)
1972 Olympic Games - Munich(1)
1972 Olympics - Munich(7)
1973 Commemorative Stamps Alkmaar(2)
1973 Commemorative Stamps Alkmaar(1)
1975 Liberation(1)
1975 Liberation(10)
1978 Royal Military Academy(12)
1978 Royal Military Academy(1)
1978 Summer Organ Concerts, VIIth Int.Cyclus(2)
1978 Summer Organ Concerts, VIIth Int.Cyclus(3)
1980 Politicians(4)
1980 Politicians(27)
1983 The Style(1)
1983 The Style(24)
1984 Zaanstad regional post(4)
1984 Zaanstad regional post(4)
1985 Elfstedentocht(2)
1985 Elfstedentocht(11)
1986 Miscellaneous(1)
1986 Miscellaneous(16)
1986 Test Windmill Center Sexbierum(1)
1986 Test Windmill Center Sexbierum(9)
1987 December stamps(26)
1987 December stamps(5)
1989 Vending Machine Strips(38)
1989 Automatic lanes(3)
1991 December stamps(5)
1991 December Stamps(8)
1991 Nobel laureates(6)
1991 Nobel laureates(14)
1992 Miscellaneous(22)
1992 Miscellaneous(5)
1993 Nobel laureates(7)
1993 Nobel laureates(11)
1995 Jubilees(21)
1995 Anniversaries(14)
1996 Youth(5)
1996 Youth(16)
1999 Elder Stamps(17)
1999 Elder Stamps(1)
2000 It Fryske Gea (Region post)(1)
2000 It Fryske Gea (Region post)(2)
2001 December stamps(54)
2001 December stamps(1)
2002 Europe(13)
2002 Europe(1)
2002 Business Stamps(11)
2002 Business Stamps(5)
2003 Summer stamps(21)
2003 Summer stamps(10)
2006 Business Stamps(8)
2006 Business Stamps (1)(9)
2006 Business Stamps (2)(8)
2007 Nothing beats Groningen(1)
2007 Nothing beats Groningen(1)
2010 December Stamps(1)
2010 December stamps(17)
2010 Special Stamps(9)
2010 Special Stamps(7)
2010 Hallmark Greeting Stamps(20)
2010 Hallmark Greeting Stamps(12)
2010 Snoopy(26) - personal stamps with the official frame
2010 Snoopy(5) - official frame stamps
2010 Business Stamps(1)
2010 Business Stamps(19)
2011 I love Holland(1)
2011 I love Holland(5)
2011 Birds(23)
2011 Birds(147)
2012 Christmas with Duck(4)
2012 Christmas with Duck(1)
2013 BOfilex(3)
2013 Bofilex(7)
2017 Briefmarken-Messe Essen(2)
2017 Briefmarken-Messe Essen(1)
2021 The Onlanden(3)
2021 The Onlanden(1)
City Post(3)
City Post(1)

Question: What to do with postcards and occasional envelopes in terms of issue? There was an 1882 Royal Family issue with occasional envelopes running until 1999. I converted all of these to "<year of issue of the envelope> Royal Family". The same applies to postcards/postal stationery. For example: https://www.lastdodo.nl/nl/areas/100293-nederland?cf%5B7847%5D=2248775 but otherwise: do you classify it under the year of cancellation? From the series on it? Of the year the postal stationery was issued (if shown)
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July 31, 2022 10:22
From the year the postal stationery was issued

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to give occasion issues and postal stationery the same issue name as the stamps and/or blocks/sheets. Because of the issue date which is not the same.
This causes the default sorting to go wrong. An issue of stamps is then not in the place where you expect it. After all, the issue date is part of the mechanism to show the issues in order in the gallery.
That's my opinion, as a collector. Nothing has been explicitly agreed upon.
Postcards and postal stationery also have an exact date of issue, catalog code, catalog value.
A lot can be found in Michel catalogs for Europe #8844241 and #8844249 .

double issue names

There are a lot more than that, but based on your list I'm going to rename the issue name with the least number of items to 'xxxx tmp'.
Then, via the 'Issuance' filter, you can perfectly select 'tmp'.
At the moment there are no releases with 'tmp' in the name :)
I can't do the complete list in 5 minutes, it takes some time.
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July 31, 2022 10:29
Issue names with (1), (2), (I), (II) ... are different, and should stay that way. Usually indicate a second or third series (within the same year) with the same name. Or the same series but issued differently (eg with 2-sided corner roller perforation).

With this addition, the difference can be made in search (filtering, selections, ...).


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