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July 14, 2022 07:11
zoekmij 

Beer coasters is a nice collecting area, as I also see quite a few large collectors as well as other administrators active on LD. Isn't it an idea that you work out 20 examples of what your value motivation is versus the current catalog value and first discuss this with Coba (contact with Coba has rightly been suggested before). Your point seems useful to me, I see that ideas have already been mentioned to improve the catalog and your expertise is already appreciated. That's a positive sign, isn't it?

In conclusion : it is not clear to me whether you are talking about incidents and a relatively small part of valuations or perhaps you mean that the largest part of the beer coaster valuations are incorrect?
 
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July 14, 2022 08:44
Sugarbags has both fields year and period.

I must confess that I never noticed that. That's exactly what I meant.

The only concern I have about using two fields is that when sorting by year, only that field is looked at. If a Period is entered but not a Year, that item will not be sorted.
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July 14, 2022 09:53
Rene, comics were printed in large numbers and since it was not a disposable item, many have survived. There have also been catalogs with price indications for decades, I collected that in the early 1980s and then there was already a Hans Matla Catalog.

zoekmij Yes, I also had the Matla catalogs in the 80's and 90's. It's amazing that such a small team kept track of this at the time. However, it later turned out that this was also the Achilles' heel and at a certain point it ceased to exist. Keeping a catalog in a wiki way, like LastDodo, is ultimately much more future-proof.

There are few reference works of beer coasters, and I mean the pre-war ones, because you will never be complete

We're trying to change that here :-)
And you can strive for completeness, that applies to every collection area.

and then always without any value or price indication because of many of the pre-war coasters no more than 5 copies are known, but you can never be sure how many. Sticking a target price there is nonsense, one gives 5 Euro for it, the other 100.

That sounds like a list price of 50 euros is a better indication than what is now with 0.05 - 0.10 as you indicated earlier.
A catalog value - just like the Matla prices at the time - is always only an indication. An actual sale price depends on all kinds of variables such as the specific moment, the place, how badly the seller wants to get rid of it and how badly the buyer wants something. But the more realistic the indication, the better of course. Many people kept buying a new Matla catalog to have a better indication of the prices.

As far as dating is concerned, Boekenmagazijn's suggestion is very wise. You can almost only date felt pads from the period 1918-1940 on the basis of TF numbers and printers and then you always have a 'from' -'to' or '<' period, rarely a unique year.

It does indeed seem like a good idea to add that.

As far as the price indication is concerned, you are actually saying that anyone can just put a value on your house and if you want to adjust that value, you have to go through a real estate agent. Does that seem logical to you?

Oh, no. If you want to compare the catalog value with houses, it is better to compare it somewhat with the WOZ value as determined in the Netherlands and which serves as the basis for tax payment. You can make a motivated objection to it.
And furthermore, it says nothing about what you paid for your item (you can also indicate that yourself on LastDodo) or for what price you want to sell it (you can also indicate that yourself).
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July 14, 2022 14:24
I recently found a pin that stated the year exactly and that was handy.
If it's on the pin, it's easy. Sometimes you can also derive the year from the subject, as with #2483273 where you enter the 25- anniversary adds to the founding date (1940). Browsing through the newspapers on Delpher, I sometimes come across an advertisement for pins, which I mention.
But importers also regularly bet (without mentioning how they arrived at the date).
I estimate that ultimately no more than 1 percent of the pins can be accurately dated.

However, there are a few thousand pins in the catalog from the time of the pin craze of the mid-1960s. Those over sixty now recognize them quite easily. Although there is no exact date for most of them, I can confidently date them all to the period 1962-1966. You don't need more.
After that, in the 1970s and 80s, buttons were especially popular and from the early 1990s they are almost all pins. The latter do not interest me that much personally, but about 100,000 different ones have been published by Disney alone. So we still have some things to add here on LD ;-)

As far as prices are concerned, I don't give a damn. In my section I approve everything that does not deviate too excessively. I would prefer a pin catalog without prices, but I am aware that some collectors are very attached to their "values".
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July 14, 2022 14:51
There are, however, a few thousand pins in the catalog from the time of the pin craze of the mid-1960s. Those over sixty now recognize them quite easily. Although there is no exact date for most of them, I can confidently date them all to the period 1962-1966. That's all you need.

Was this really only a rage in the Netherlands in that period or was it international stripspeldjes ?
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July 14, 2022 15:22
In Beermats, the Period field is added, just like now with Sugar packets.

{Edit - field has been added]
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July 14, 2022 16:01
Rene As far as I know, the hype was purely Dutch, I think it barely even played in Flanders, although some Belgian brands (Cote d'Or and Jacques chocolate) did release pins.
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July 14, 2022 18:54
The only concern I have about using two fields is that when sorting by year, only that field is considered. If a Period is entered but no Year, that item is not sorted.

Year can only be sorted in the top bar, not in the left field, and you don't have to. To what extent you want to sort by period, it is possible, but you do have to be a bit aware of sugar bags.
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July 14, 2022 19:49
 As far as I know, the hype was purely Dutch, I think it barely even played in Flanders, although some Belgian brands (Cote d'Or and Jacques chocolate) did release pins.

stripspeldjes , Aha. In that case, I do not think it is logical from an international point of view to specifically give the period 1962-1966 as an option. Maybe better per decade? 1960-1969, 1970-1979 etc. 
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July 14, 2022 23:29
I understand your train of thought, that gives a nice even overview of periods optically. However, I think it's better to be as accurate as possible. You also preferably want to mention a specific year.
 
We know that the pin craze lasted at most 4 years (somewhere in 1962 the first advertising pins were issued, the peak was in 1965, and by the summer of 1966 it's all over). Why make a period of 10 years out of that, just because the numbers are nicer?

The Second World War is also called the period '40-'45. That looks nice, but actually that's six years, and you don't put the war in the 1940-1949 decade either because of the schedule.

Or take coins from the DDR, for example, they are also in the period 1949-1990. That is specific to that country and "internationally" inapplicable.

Things just don't happen in certain decades.
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July 15, 2022 09:06
We know that the pin craze lasted no more than 4 years (sometime in 1962 the first advertising pins were released, the peak was in 1965, and by the summer of 1966 it was all over). Why would you make it a period of 10 years, just because the numbers are nicer?

5 years is also allowed. I'm just saying that if you specifically take 1962 - 1966 based on a craze in the Netherlands, we're only thinking from a Dutch perspective. That is not a logical period for users outside NL stripspeldjes 
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René, you apparently miss the point of what I was trying to explain, but okay, because of Buizer's comment, the geniality of Boekenmagazijn and the request for examples, I offer a simple solution below.

A catalog must be based on objective data, the value now stated is subjective, worse still, you want someone to value a hundred thousand coasters, many of which they have not even seen themselves. As a result, coasters from the period 1920-25 with a value between 5 and 20 cents.

Therefore a simple proposal to get rid of them.

At first glance I see 4 parameters that can objectively determine the value of a coaster, its attractiveness, age, condition and edition. It does require a new field, decade, but you could keep it hidden and fill it in with a routine based on year and period. These fields must then be (are) filled in.

The status could easily be captured via a coefficient, for example, 1.2 if excellent, 1 if good and 0.8 if reasonable.

You can replace the circulation by taking into account a base number based on the decade and the number of owners, inversely proportional. For example Base number * coefficient 1.2 if no owner, 1 if 1 owner, 0.8 if 2, 0.7 if 3, … to 0 if greater than 9.  You set the base number according to age, e.g. 30 cents from now to 1970, 50 cents from 1969 to 1950, 1 euro if older.

Per decade you give a value for the age, eg 2 cents per decade between now and 1990, 5 cents between 1989 and 1970, 15 cents between 1969 and 1940, 30 cents if older.

You could determine the attractiveness on the basis of printers or the theme. If you think that beer coasters are worth more than water coasters, for example, you give a standard coefficient of 1 for ordinary coasters and 1.2 for the better ones. . You could even take into account the fact that someone is looking for this coaster.

Ultimately you get as value (Number Age + Number Circulation) * coefficient State and Coefficient Attractiveness.

A coaster from a brewery from 1949 in 1 collection in excellent condition would therefore have a value of (Old age (2x3 + 5x2 + 15x3) + Edition (1 x 1) ) * Condition (1,2) * Attractiveness (1 ,2) = 2.60 Euro 

You can pour this into a simple routine that you run daily or weekly, so that you get an objective valuation and free administrators like Coba from useless work.

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July 15, 2022 16:09
zoekmij 
Please contact  cobaschouten-2011 to discuss the pricing of the older beer coasters. Not too complicated, but an average standard value per 10-year period is probably conceivable. From there, agree on a ratio between Mint condition - Good condition - Fair condition.
Then the discussion is over and the rare coasters can be adjusted separately later.
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July 23, 2022 12:44
From experience... I know that Coba finds values of 30-100,.. euros ridiculous. However, they are realistic for some felts.
Value remains subjective. But I get the point of zoekmij that you can't set a value on every coaster by default. there's just so much more to it...
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July 23, 2022 15:45
values of 30-100,.. euros are ridiculous. However, they are realistic for some felts.
Interesting. Are there places (eg auction lots or sales elsewhere) where it can still be seen that a lot has been paid for some old coasters?
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July 23, 2022 15:54
Rene of course there are, have a look at the sold items on eBay or Delcampe.
I'm not saying that sometimes there aren't exaggerated amounts… but that works both ways.
I have a folder at home somewhere with the auction results of coasters, the most expensive being 988 euros, in Belgium, the most expensive in Germany at 1210 euros. And then we are indeed talking about 1 felt every time.
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July 23, 2022 17:43
Apparently there are also people here who like to spew comments from the sidelines but above all do not want to blow themselves.
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July 24, 2022 00:07
of course there are, have a look at the sold items on eBay or Delcampe.

maartenrits , do you maybe have some links to auction proceeds that are representative in your eyes of old coasters?
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July 25, 2022 09:54
Returning briefly to the year-period discussion, the comment that the basic manual already prescribes (chapter 8) to always fill in the first known year of 'issue' for items that have been manufactured during a period and to continue the period. specify in the details field.
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July 25, 2022 11:41
maartenrits ,
Thanks for the examples! Even if we leave the extremes aside, I think you can say that you can't just price old coasters on a few dimes indeed.
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It's actually very simple. Each coaster has a value of what the buyer is willing to give for it. I understand very well that it is painful for some to see older felts at a low price, but if they want to sell these felts, they can still determine their selling price themselves. I myself regularly attend an exchange, and there are other people who sell the same coasters that I also offer, but at a price that is sometimes 5 to 10 times higher. if that person then sells some coasters, and I am stuck with them myself, what is the problem?
older coasters have also regularly been sold for a few cents, while new ones have already been sold for a few euros. again, it is ultimately the buyers who largely determine the price.
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July 25, 2022 12:31
Totally agree hoekemake
That is true. That's why I don't like to enter prices until now. Prices are, and always will be, subjective. I myself am often present at trade fairs. But unfortunately I often come back empty-handed, the last fair in Kapelle op den Bos I was fortunately able to exchange 7 more. That is ultimately the best.

pegag Also the first issue date is often not immediately known, a period can be estimated quite often on the basis of the style, so with the current period field, a problem seems to be solved here.

Rene There are also old coasters with little to no value anyway, remains a difficult discussion. I'm going to try to take averages of coasters that I often see sold.
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